REACT helicopter crash

RIP

I've seen this helicopter around Northern Illinois a few times, based only a few miles from my house.
 
Sad. Too many EMS helicopters have been going down. RIP to the crew who made the ultimate sacrifice in the line of duty for others.
 
HEMS has an abysmal safety record. The one's I work with only go in the nicest of weather, and I understand why. I am curious if the accident rate will go up, as not only fixed, but rotor as well are making a bush push towards single engine. Where our guys do most of their flying, single engine rotor losing it's engine = death, day or night. You can autorotate, but what good is that when the ground is at a 40 degree slope?
 
z987k said:
HEMS has an abysmal safety record. The one's I work with only go in the nicest of weather, and I understand why. I am curious if the accident rate will go up, as not only fixed, but rotor as well are making a bush push towards single engine. Where our guys do most of their flying, single engine rotor losing it's engine = death, day or night. You can autorotate, but what good is that when the ground is at a 40 degree slope?
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Problem is though, many twin engine helos that you'd see at an EMS operator, the 2nd engine only carries it's own weight, performance-wise; not buying you much; you're going to be going down at the weights they're flying at, depending on when and where it occurs. Sometimes, you just have a bad hand of cards dealt, what with being night, bad terrain, lousy landing area, etc. It's just the risks that come with the operation. Single engine is cheaper, easier to maintain, etc. Cost is a big issue. It's rare to see EMS operations with twin engine helicopters, and even far more rare to see one with two pilots onboard. Although in this case, REACT uses a twin-engine BK-117 helicopter.
 
Talking to our pilots, all our helos were twins up to about a year ago. Then they started phasing in these a-stars. The couple that are left are in the worse areas. Hopefully they keep them there. Again, talking to our pilots they said the difference between a twin and a single, is a singe, they're going down at ~1800fpm NOW. In the twin they're going to fly to an airport and do a skidding landing akin to and airplane landing, but at a much lower airspeed. They said basically they can't hover anymore, but they can still fly. I'll have to find out the name of the twin model.

Our guys turn down a lot of flights, even if they have to overfly IFR, which is like all winter for the most part. Which is fine, that's what the fixed wing is for, and I kind of like the team aspect of it. They can turn down a flight for a legit safety reason, and the mission can still be accomplished because we're there to back them up.
 
z987k said:
Talking to our pilots, all our helos were twins up to about a year ago. Then they started phasing in these a-stars. The couple that are left are in the worse areas. Hopefully they keep them there. Again, talking to our pilots they said the difference between a twin and a single, is a singe, they're going down at ~1800fpm NOW. In the twin they're going to fly to an airport and do a skidding landing akin to and airplane landing, but at a much lower airspeed. They said basically they can't hover anymore, but they can still fly. I'll have to find out the name of the twin model.
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There used to be a few operators that had twin engine helos, but cost to operate them as well as a lack of performance added, started a push to single engine helos. Time was, there were many operators of A109, S-76, BK-117, Bell 222 and BO-105 helos. You occasionally see some of these around, but not normally with private EMS operators, and not even with alot of hospital based ones. In a twin engine helo, when lightweight enough, you can do a regular landing, although the slide-on or run-on landing is the safest option. When at weight, they're correct that once you slow below effective translational lift when single-engine....where aerodynamics isn't helping ythe rotor system fly more efficiently and the whole weight of the bird is hanging on the rotor system itself.....then you can't hover out of ground effect anymore, and often times not even in ground effect anymore.
 
z987k said:
Again, talking to our pilots they said the difference between a twin and a single, is a singe, they're going down at ~1800fpm NOW. In the twin they're going to fly to an airport and do a skidding landing akin to and airplane landing, but at a much lower airspeed. They said basically they can't hover anymore, but they can still fly. I'll have to find out the name of the twin model.
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Mine does 2400 fpm in an auto when basically empty.


MikeD said:
When at weight, they're correct that once you slow below effective translational lift when single-engine....where aerodynamics isn't helping ythe rotor system fly more efficiently and the whole weight of the bird is hanging on the rotor system itself.....then you can't hover out of ground effect anymore, and often times not even in ground effect anymore.
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Or well above ETL depending on the conditions!
 
How many EMS crashes have been from engine failure? I can't remember one. I think with the state of the healthcare system in this country, you will see more 407s and AS350s which I do not think is a bad thing. The safety issues with HEMS is a lot more complex than just this matter.
 
Our program still uses BKs, but they're getting a little long in the tooth. I will say that the perception of safety is higher. At least a couple of our guys would quit or move if they gave us A-stars. I suspect that those that would stay would take fewer flights.
 
z987k - our rotor drivers are flying either the A-star or the EC135, which is the twin. The reason the a-stars were brought in was purely a financial decision made by the network, which is also why you and I may very well be flying PC12s for them in the not too distant future. Safety comes after the bottom line.
 
I_Money said:
How many EMS crashes have been from engine failure? I can't remember one. I think with the state of the healthcare system in this country, you will see more 407s and AS350s which I do not think is a bad thing. The safety issues with HEMS is a lot more complex than just this matter.
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There was the one that crashed in downtown TUS just two years ago, engine failure. Two people survived the impact, but burned in the fire. The slow initial attack by the fire department didn't really help; over 5 minutes on scene with no fire attack made.

Here:

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-476885?hpt=Sbin

Boris Badenov said:
Our program still uses BKs, but they're getting a little long in the tooth. I will say that the perception of safety is higher. At least a couple of our guys would quit or move if they gave us A-stars. I suspect that those that would stay would take fewer flights.
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The AStar is an alright helicopter (I fly the B2 version), it's just a very tight fit for EMS use and, to me, not very practical for it. But alot of operators use them.
 
MikeD said:
There was the one that crashed in downtown TUS just two years ago, engine failure. Two people survived the impact, but burned in the fire. The slow initial attack by the fire department didn't really help; over 5 minutes on scene with no fire attack made.

Here:

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-476885?hpt=Sbin
Click to expand...

MikeD if that is the crash I am thinking off didn't they neglect to do the safety flight after maintenance, ended up not everything was OK and they were heavy and low when problems began.
 
MikeD said:
There was the one that crashed in downtown TUS just two years ago, engine failure. Two people survived the impact, but burned in the fire. The slow initial attack by the fire department didn't really help; over 5 minutes on scene with no fire attack made.

Here:

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-476885?hpt=Sbin
Click to expand...
Not a firefighter but suddenly curious as to why the responders didn't fight the fire right then and there...any ideas?
 
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