Rant from a regional FO!

[dasleben]

We were all made promises.

First lesson should be "There are no promises"

I was supposed to be a narrowbody captain in 6 years, widebody captain at 12 years and look at me now, 16 year widebody FO.

Welcome to the business. Pass the Cheetos.

When I got hired at XJT in the heady days pre-meltdown, they told me I'd be a captain in 18 months, and that I'd just finished my second to last interview in my entire career (CAL being the last).

Of course, 12 months later I was on the street, and CAL no longer exists in its original form. I also somehow ended up in the ACMI world, rather than the scheduled major job I was expecting.

It's been hard...lots of crappy pay, lots of moving, lots of job changes (4 airlines and 5 moves), but after all that I feel good about where I'm at. It could all go sideways here too, but I'll cross that bridge (again) if we come to it.

But... I'd do it all again.

This post brought to you by a 6er of Pacifico.

 

[derg]

When I got hired at XJT in the heady days pre-meltdown, they told me I'd be a captain in 18 months, and that I'd just finished my second to last interview in my entire career (CAL being the last).

Of course, 12 months later I was on the street, and CAL no longer exists in its original form. I also somehow ended up in the ACMI world, rather than the scheduled major job I was expecting.

It's been hard...lots of crappy pay, lots of moving, lots of job changes (4 airlines and 5 moves), but after all that I feel good about where I'm at. It could all go sideways here too, but I'll cross that bridge (again) if we come to it.

But... I'd do it all again.

This post brought to you by a 6er of Pacifico.

I love it when you guys "get it"

 

[MikeD]

I've been in aviation for 10 years. I started working at a regional airline last July and can honestly say I've had it. For those working towards a regional job, I wish you the best of luck. I've worked too hard and life is too short to waste it doing a job that makes you depressed.
Short story- I was happy as a CFI. Took a job at a regional after the interviewers said I could hold a line in a few months, be based close to home in one of their many bases in my state, and upgrade times are 6-9 months. With that information in hand, I decided to try it out and take the $25,000/year pay cut to "live the dream."
One year later, I am still not senior enough to hold a line. I am based in an outstation far away from my family. I spend all my time off commuting to and from work. There is no glimmer of an upgrade. I never see my family. The final straw- the company, in its infinite wisdom, is deciding to ship us off to a pilot mill flight school in a mad dash effort to get all the company FO's their ATP certificates in Piper Seminoles. What a joke.
The point of this rant? If you plan on working as a regional airline pilot, please consider the following: you will be making less than the person that gives you your coffee in the morning on the way to the airport, you better be single or be able to live in base or else you will never see your family, and your passion for aviation (i'm assuming we're all passionate here) will be compromised. I miss the hell out of flying small airplanes. I miss being able to fly where ever I want. I miss having days off where I don't have to get into uniform to commute.
Congrats to those below me in seniority- your number will be going up by one very shortly!

We were all made promises.

First lesson should be "There are no promises"

I was supposed to be a narrowbody captain in 6 years, widebody captain at 12 years and look at me now, 16 year widebody FO.

Welcome to the business. Pass the Cheetos.

1. There are no guarantees.
2. Life isn't fair.
3. Timing is everything
4. Seniority has its privileges

Remember that, live by it, and you'll never be surprised.

 

[joethepilot]

I love it when you guys "get it"

Interesting, coming from a man that upgraded in a year at his regional and walked into a 727 SO spot not too long after that.

I'm sorry Doug, I appreciate this forum and everything you do here but waiting for an upgrade at a legacy simply doesn't compare to being 6-9 year FO at a regional or being on the 3rd or 4th regional.

This guy has a valid point, and the industry is broken, from a labor perspective.

 

[SeanD]

Eh, things were a little different when Derg was slinging gear at the regionals. I mean, the dude is like 55 years old now.

 

[Gonzo]

Interesting, coming from a man that upgraded in a year at his regional and walked into a 727 SO spot not too long after that.

I'm sorry Doug, I appreciate this forum and everything you do here but waiting for an upgrade at a legacy simply doesn't compare to being 6-9 year FO at a regional or being on the 3rd or 4th regional.

This guy has a valid point, and the industry is broken, from a labor perspective.

No he doesn't, he picked a bottom feeder airline and is pissed that it didn't work out for him. I am a FO in my 6th year at a regional. I picked a airline that had the 2nd longest upgrade time because of the pay and QOL. I make more then 75% of the people in the US and most of those 75% work a lot harder then me. Do I wish I made more money, yup is do. Do I wish I had already upgraded, yup. But at the end of the day life isn't all that bad. I make enough to pay my bills and still have money left over to have fun with and put in savings. I have worked 7 days this month and will work 4 more by the end of the month.

 

[joethepilot]

Gonzo, I made the same decision as you. I went to a "stable", good quality of life regional about 6 years ago. Yet by no fault of my own I have just graduated off of first year pay at a regional for the third time in my career. Have you considered that you may have had some luck as well?

 

[JordanD]

I'm a CFI and I'd kill for the prospect of a minimum guarantee and the ability to just show up and fly a damned airplane for once.

 

[Gonzo]

Gonzo, I made the same decision as you. I went to a "stable", good quality of life regional about 6 years ago. Yet by no fault of my own I have just graduated off of first year pay at a regional for the third time in my career. Have you considered that you may have had some luck as well?

I was furloughed, but thanks to many people on this website I was told to stay the course and I did. Derg Is always saying never make a lateral move. If your hand is forced then make the move.

 

[block30]

To the original poster, I can understand the commuting thing being a real morale killer. Any chance to move into base?

 

[desertdog71]

Yeah, I left my regional job in 2007 for better pay instructing. You know what I learned? I should have stayed where I was. Now I'm 4 years out of the business and struggling to get a look from anybody just to get back into it again. Huge pay cut and all. Why? because my job sucks and I hate the whole world because of it. I'd rather make crap and sling gear for some kid 15 years younger than me. If things get that tough, I can sneak a day or two a month driving truck and make $200 a day no sweat, to get me through that first year.

I don't want to come off the wrong way or anything because there are legitimate gripes in the 121 world. From where I am sitting though, 11 days off minimum a month is a full week more than I get now. Sleeping in company paid hotels and getting paid per diem beats the hell out of sleeping in your truck and buying your own food at inflated prices, and the prospect of catching a couple flights to get home and back to work isn't that terrible. I'm sure I will turn jaded and hateful about aviation some day myself, but right now, its better than slinging a tar mop on a hot roof.

 

[SFLAX]

When I went to the regionals, I was told two things....1. You will be an FO for way longer then you expect and 2. You will never be able to get the base you want with the schedule you want. If you can live with that then your ready to be a regional pilot. If either 1 or 2 happen your blessed. I was lucky, I got out when the corporate world was hiring, due to the fact that the airlines are hiring. But even right now, unless you really put a huge effort into it and get lucky, bailing for a good corporate gig is tough. I've been at my new job for 4 months and I am so worried they will pull the plane next year if we don't start flying more. But I can't worry about it, just have to keep plugging along.

 

[ScorpionStinger]

Best of luck man. Like others said, don't bail too early. Get ur ATP on the clock. Get something out of it (keep sake)

I never understood why regional pilots want to "commute." Especially for crappy hr/ rate job.

 

[RRPower]

I never understood why regional pilots want to "commute." Especially for crappy hr/ rate job.

There are so many reasons its not even funny. Mostly because regional bases are so fluid that it seems like if you were willing to move to one, it would close and you just moved. We had an RDU base for almost 4 years...tons of people moved there and they just closed it. So much for not wanting to commute.

 

[Tld]

<---- happy first year regional FO

In my time at JC I gathered the following advice to ensure happiness at the regional FO level:

1. Don't go into debt in order to fly.
2. Live in base.
3. Stay single-ish.... Ymmv, but at least retain the ability to be transient/have a supportive or equally transient partner
4. Be careful about the company you choose, you will never really know if you chose wisely until after the fact, but do your research.
5. Remember, it's always better than flying a desk

Thank you to those before me who steered me right.

Queue: "the more you know" chime

 

[Cav]

When I got hired at XJT in the heady days pre-meltdown, they told me I'd be a captain in 18 months, and that I'd just finished my second to last interview in my entire career (CAL being the last).

Of course, 12 months later I was on the street, and CAL no longer exists in its original form. I also somehow ended up in the ACMI world, rather than the scheduled major job I was expecting.

It's been hard...lots of crappy pay, lots of moving, lots of job changes (4 airlines and 5 moves), but after all that I feel good about where I'm at. It could all go sideways here too, but I'll cross that bridge (again) if we come to it.

But... I'd do it all again.

This post brought to you by a 6er of Pacifico.

Good post. I remember the promises made at XJT. I laughed at the stupidity of them then as I do now. Even today I still get told by many Captains I fly with how great my career is going to be and how my timing is perfect. I appreciate their optimism but my guess is that I follow the staffing situation A LOT more closely than they do and I don't share their opinion. That's not saying I'm not grateful for the position I'm in or that I'm a pessimist. It's just an honest appraisal and my view of the realities of this job. History supports my view time and time again.

Bottom line, happiness for me in this job is finding contentment with where you are not where you are heading. It means having realistic goals. Most importantly it means working to live and not living to work....and THAT'S why people who don't get the concept of more money more time off should be given frontal lobotomies... Derg imagine all the DALPA zombies walking around ATL if that happened.

 

[jrh]

This conversation is so weird.

Most of the same old timers who talk about demanding better pay, better QOL, better management, how an airline pilot is worth more than they get credit for, etc. are the same pilots turning around and telling the OP to suck it up and deal with it. They had to deal with massive amounts of suck, therefore you should too.

I don't know of any other industries, outside of aviation, that expects so much of their entry level employees yet treats them with so little regard.

Something to keep in mind is what opportunities exist *outside* of aviation. It's a false comparison to say, "Well, what else are you going to do? Keep working as a CFI?" Heck no! You can do WHATEVER YOU WANT!

You don't *have* to be a pilot. I left the airlines and am flying a desk, doing aircraft sales nowadays. Very happy with it. My brother makes a full time living selling event tickets online. I have several friends from college who are happily working as teachers overseas. A few other friends have good lives as nurses. It's a big world with lots of possibilities. All of them have significantly better QOL than the majority of airline pilots and oftentimes make equal or better money.

To the OP: Good for you. I've got tons of respect for the people in this world who vote with their feet. Best of luck to you in the future.

 

[GX]

jrh, I'm not getting that message. The message that I am getting is that there is no going forward from going backwards. Not today. Not now. There are choices to be made, and the choices are;
get out and stay out because the chances of getting picked up are slim
stay in and deal with it until there is a better option offered.

My own take, as someone who has done his fair share of "hard knocks"; going backwards NEVER means going forwards. Whoever said "Sometimes you need to go backwards to go forwards" was an idiotic imbecile who needed justification for failing. You're better off standing still, and figuring out how to make a forward step. Quitting anything scars one's soul. Further, quitting something always has a way of setting someone back, not propelling them forward.

If I could tell you hw many times I heard young guys in the military say, "BUT MY RECRUITER TOLD ME...."

 

[Screaming_Emu]

This conversation is so weird.

Most of the same old timers who talk about demanding better pay, better QOL, better management, how an airline pilot is worth more than they get credit for, etc. are the same pilots turning around and telling the OP to suck it up and deal with it. They had to deal with massive amounts of suck, therefore you should too.

I don't know of any other industries, outside of aviation, that expects so much of their entry level employees yet treats them with so little regard.

Something to keep in mind is what opportunities exist *outside* of aviation. It's a false comparison to say, "Well, what else are you going to do? Keep working as a CFI?" Heck no! You can do WHATEVER YOU WANT!

You don't *have* to be a pilot. I left the airlines and am flying a desk, doing aircraft sales nowadays. Very happy with it. My brother makes a full time living selling event tickets online. I have several friends from college who are happily working as teachers overseas. A few other friends have good lives as nurses. It's a big world with lots of possibilities. All of them have significantly better QOL than the majority of airline pilots and oftentimes make equal or better money.

To the OP: Good for you. I've got tons of respect for the people in this world who vote with their feet. Best of luck to you in the future.

Eh, trying something, discovering you're not into it, and then leaving is respectable.

Not doing your research and then discovering that your job at Walmart has low pay and no benefits it stupid.

 

[KHanson]

I've been in aviation for 10 years. I started working at a regional airline last July and can honestly say I've had it. For those working towards a regional job, I wish you the best of luck. I've worked too hard and life is too short to waste it doing a job that makes you depressed.
Short story- I was happy as a CFI. Took a job at a regional after the interviewers said I could hold a line in a few months, be based close to home in one of their many bases in my state, and upgrade times are 6-9 months. With that information in hand, I decided to try it out and take the $25,000/year pay cut to "live the dream."
One year later, I am still not senior enough to hold a line. I am based in an outstation far away from my family. I spend all my time off commuting to and from work. There is no glimmer of an upgrade. I never see my family. The final straw- the company, in its infinite wisdom, is deciding to ship us off to a pilot mill flight school in a mad dash effort to get all the company FO's their ATP certificates in Piper Seminoles. What a joke.
The point of this rant? If you plan on working as a regional airline pilot, please consider the following: you will be making less than the person that gives you your coffee in the morning on the way to the airport, you better be single or be able to live in base or else you will never see your family, and your passion for aviation (i'm assuming we're all passionate here) will be compromised. I miss the hell out of flying small airplanes. I miss being able to fly where ever I want. I miss having days off where I don't have to get into uniform to commute.
Congrats to those below me in seniority- your number will be going up by one very shortly!

Transfer to KBIL . Dunno where you live, but if you can hold a line BIL is a commutable'ish base. Better than the NE, that's for sure. Try trip trading, getting a string of days off, etc...

 

[drunkenbeagle]

I'm a CFI and I'd kill for the prospect of a minimum guarantee and the ability to just show up and fly a damned airplane for once.

I'm a CFI, in many ways, it is much better than an airline job. I can teach pretty much any day I feel like. It is flexible enough for me to do other things that pay much better. Never involves commuting or being on reserve. No such thing as low first year pay. Doesn't feel like a job, because I'm doing my other job half the time.

That said, if it ever came to it, I could hack out a living instructing. "Showing up and flying the damned airplane" gets old after a while too.