Rant against; the value of.

[BravoHotel]

Résumés and networking.

Résumés:

I spent hours on research of. I attended resume work shops. Bounced my Résumé off of HR people I knew, countless hours on the internet etc. I was looking for a job in anything I was remotely qualified to do. I seriously considered truck driving and shelving aviation entirely save my commitment to the Reserves.

I even filed a USERRA complaint against an outfit because the the recruiter stated "We are looking for someone more long term, even though your qualifications are a match for the job, you leaving for FE school in X months wouldn't sit well with our clients....

I ended up withdrawing my complaint but the fact I even had to file one bothered me.

/End rant.

Networking.

I have read this on JC countless times. Network, network network. My question has always been how???
Here is how I did it. YMMV. But it was my parachute rigger ticket. I met people through the rigging loft where I worked. I met a CFI with his own plane and now I am a CFI candidate once again. My instructor is not charging me for his time and only for operation of his airplane as I am his first CFI candiate.
I was able to help this gentlemen out as I couldn't fly jumpers a couple days and he was able to fly for me making a few bucks and was able to put almost 20 hours in his book for three days of work.

My jump pilot job, I met the owner of a skydiving outfit and we started talking about airplanes, he found out I had my CMEL and CSEL and had experience flying jumpers, hired! Not once did I show him a Résumé! He is also a pilot and wants to fly from time to time but he did not want hire a full time pilot. So I get to continue parachute rigging and work at the Air Fore while being paid to fly with a airframe up grade in the future to a A90.

The ability to Network is a valuable tool to have.

 

[JayAre]

We had the new CP of AMF visiting the other day. Sure enough "Resume nightmares" we're lightly discussed.

Some quick highlights.
1. Learn how to spell the persons name correctly.
2. You really don't need a 2x2 picture of yourself on it.
3. Brief one page summary. Not three pages of crap.
4. Not "Dear Mz"

 

[Boyington]

With online applications, I have submitted very few resumes.

I will say, though, know about the job before you apply for it. I recently applied for a job, and received a call for a telephone interview almost a month after I sent the application in. The chief pilot, an HR representative, and someone from the training department were all on the line and wanted to talk immediately. I was at a birthday party with my kids (for one of their friends), and had to multitask and answer their questions while watching my kids on the bounce houses. Then, when they asked what I knew about their company and what questions I had for them, I had to remember what I had learned about their company - where and what they flew - and knowing what I know about their company, why would I be a good fit with them. I was invited for an in-person interview, so I guess my preparation was worth it. In the end, I took another job, but it was my option.

That is important to remember. You never know when they will call, or how quickly you may have to go for an interview, if they choose you.

 

[wbauman1217]

Resumes; they only care about how many hours you have. Cut it down to a page.

 

[Maurus]

We had the new CP of AMF visiting the other day. Sure enough "Resume nightmares" we're lightly discussed.

Some quick highlights.
1. Learn how to spell the persons name correctly.
2. You really don't need a 2x2 picture of yourself on it.
3. Brief one page summary. Not three pages of crap.
4. Not "Dear Mz"

AMF already has a new CP? Guess the idea of a good safety culture didn't go well with upper management.

 

[JayAre]

AMF already has a new CP? Guess the idea of a good safety culture didn't go well with upper management.

Well new to me, I've only meet him twice. I guess he has been here a year now.

 

[Maurus]

Well new to me, I've only meet him twice. I guess he has been here a year now.

Good. Sadly I didn't even think he would last that long.

 

[ClarkGriswold]

Resumes; they only care about how many hours you have. Cut it down to a page.

This. @Seggy helped me realize this recently.

 

[JustinS]

It might be obvious to most, but don't burn bridges either, and know that you're not anonymous on the internet as hard as you may try to be. Networking is huge. Network early, network often, and be genuine.

 

[SeanD]

If I had the times for Southern Jets, you can guarantee Id be camping our front of Dergs home in a tent made of resumes. Now that's networking.

 

[ChasenSFO]

I'll add something that has been said on this site many times by @Bumblebee and many others; tell people what you want to do, and someone will want to help you do it. I've got a private and about 180 hours, yet I've had people try to get me into flying jobs thinking I had my commercial. Why? I have a lot of friends, I don't ask for favors unless I really need them, I do whatever favors I can for people(aka I'm a friend, not a vulture looking for a hookup), and I'm very open about my flying ambitions as far-fetched as they seem to most people. But you know who I've found doesn't find my ideas far-fetched? People who can actually help me achieve my dream and profit off it. If you find a way to make money in an airplane while making someone else even more money, they're usually all ears.

Also, the internet might as well be real conversation. People form opinions of you, and can and probably will make or break you. Hell, @kiloalpha finished my private with me when I ran into some CFI drama right before my checkride, and @drunkenbeagle is going to help me finish the rest of my ratings once I can get the time off work. I didn't ask these guys for help, it was offered to me, and I'm very appreciative for it. Networking is good, burning bridges is bad, 'mmkay? Keep that in mind if you ever find yourself in 20+ page thread on an aviation networking site where every other poster is telling you you're wrong, because you probably are and people don't forget. Even if they do, Google doesn't.

Anyone who doesn't value networking should talk to @DPApilot and see what he's already accomplished at his age.

 

[SFLAX]

Networking is one part of it. But in my opinion, a pilot is a pilot. But a guy who has something else, meaning, I have a buddy who does OSHA training . I did all his courses, not that being qualified to work in confined places will have no value to a flight department. It does add a ton of difference to me and that other pilot. I have told many a regional FO, that is facing a long up grade, do other stuff, safety department, training department, etc.

 

[Beep]

I'll add something that has been said on this site many times by @Bumblebee and many others; tell people what you want to do, and someone will want to help you do it. I've got a private and about 180 hours, yet I've had people try to get me into flying jobs thinking I had my commercial. Why? I have a lot of friends, I don't ask for favors unless I really need them, I do whatever favors I can for people(aka I'm a friend, not a vulture looking for a hookup), and I'm very open about my flying ambitions as far-fetched as they seem to most people. But you know who I've found doesn't find my ideas far-fetched? People who can actually help me achieve my dream and profit off it. If you find a way to make money in an airplane while making someone else even more money, they're usually all ears.

Also, the internet might as well be real conversation. People form opinions of you, and can and probably will make or break you. Hell, @kiloalpha finished my private with me when I ran into some CFI drama right before my checkride, and @drunkenbeagle is going to help me finish the rest of my ratings once I can get the time off work. I didn't ask these guys for help, it was offered to me, and I'm very appreciative for it. Networking is good, burning bridges is bad, 'mmkay? Keep that in mind if you ever find yourself in 20+ page thread on an aviation networking site where every other poster is telling you you're wrong, because you probably are and people don't forget. Even if they do, Google doesn't.

Anyone who doesn't value networking should talk to @DPApilot and see what he's already accomplished at his age.

"Beefcake...BEEFCAKE!!"

 

[DPApilot]

It's funny, I'm sitting at a Twin Peaks with @Derg and one of your questions came up in conversation. Want to know how to network? Don't friggen network! All of my networking has been a byproduct of friendships and just talking to people. Hell, I still remember @CK taking me to dinner at Pilot Pete's in Schaumburg when he flew a Meridian into town. Never would I have thought that I'd be flying Hawkers for him 5 years later....

 

[Rocketman99]

Well, that's just because we all know you're not that bright. I'm gonna be paying off that loan I took to bribe Alex for you for several more years.

 

[NewYorkophile]

I even filed a USERRA complaint against an outfit because the the recruiter stated "We are looking for someone more long term, even though your qualifications are a match for the job, you leaving for FE school in X months wouldn't sit well with our clients....

You may have done the right thing here. USERRA makes it very difficult for the employer to make any hire/not hire decisions based on military obligations, unless your obligations make it ridiculously hard to serve the role you're applying for. ie, I would wait until you're done with FE school before you apply for jobs. Telling someone you'll be out for 4-6 months right off the bat isn't a great idea.

Plus, don't underestimate how much time it will take to become a proficient FE. That's a VERY knowledge-intensive role, and we all expect you to know the -1 front to back. You'll probably have some time on orders once you finish school just to have you fly the daily lines and build experience. (I'm assuming from your pic you'll be a Herk FE).

So...wait until you're a great FE, then worry about other jobs.

 

[BravoHotel]

You may have done the right thing here. USERRA makes it very difficult for the employer to make any hire/not hire decisions based on military obligations, unless your obligations make it ridiculously hard to serve the role you're applying for. ie, I would wait until you're done with FE school before you apply for jobs. Telling someone you'll be out for 4-6 months right off the bat isn't a great idea.

Plus, don't underestimate how much time it will take to become a proficient FE. That's a VERY knowledge-intensive role, and we all expect you to know the -1 front to back. You'll probably have some time on orders once you finish school just to have you fly the daily lines and build experience. (I'm assuming from your pic you'll be a Herk FE).

So...wait until you're a great FE, then worry about other jobs.

Former C-130 crewchief. I had interviewed with my unit to be a MC-130P engineer, I was actually offered the position. However with the upcoming transition to Js I would be out of a job after spending a long time in the FE pipeline. So I made the decision to go with C-5s, as M model retains its Engineers. However between the transition from Guard to Reserve I was off in limbo land, hence finding civilian employment and the unknown school date...and the whole USERRA process.

Fortunatley I found gainful civilian employment building flight time while i wait to go off to FE school.

Once I start my school tour I will be on active duty for 16-20 months. So I wont need a job for awhile. It is just a matter of staying current on the civil side while working on becoming a qualified and proficient engineer for the AF.

The inbetween time is what has proved to be interesting.

 

[Cal Goat]

My biggest issue is cover letters. Seems like employers who put any value on cover letters are just curious to see how fluffy you can make your BS sound.

 

[drunkenbeagle]

It's funny, I'm sitting at a Twin Peaks with @Derg and one of your questions came up in conversation. Want to know how to network? Don't friggen network! All of my networking has been a byproduct of friendships and just talking to people.

Gulley understands how life works better than most people I meet...

 

[BeReal]

It's funny, I'm sitting at a Twin Peaks with @Derg and one of your questions came up in conversation. Want to know how to network? Don't friggen network! All of my networking has been a byproduct of friendships and just talking to people.....

Yeah, networking for networking's sake comes off like "I'm so excited to develop this synergistic relationship with you so we can develop mutually beneficial solutions to our job seeking/employee seeking issues and have a great blah de blah experience doing so."