RAH to operate E-190s for Midwest

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Re: 100 seat RJs finally here

Well, I guess it's not too late to make ANOTHER career change. Anyone know any good nursing schools?
 
Re: 100 seat RJs finally here

Well, there's always adult entertainment. If I had six pack abs, I'd be auditioning for "Thunder From Down Under". Besides, most dance troupes always have a token black so there's my "in".
 
AirDale...youve worked at RAH for how long? If anyone doesnt have backbone, its the "generation" that got hired after the 170s were on property. Feel free to "Return to sender" yourself back to where you were before if you are too disgusted to come to work.

This is one of the reasons I asked about Scope on the Alaska thread, b/c i really think it should be #1 in contract talks. It doesnt matter if you got 30% increase in wages if you arent going to be able to protect your job. Its a scary thing to see this happen as such a direct replacement...you cant be seeing clearly, if you cant see the same thing happening to you 10 years down the road, when you suddenly become "too costly" to operate.

Money always comes with strings attached, and for midwest airline pilots these strings were like powerlines. Midwest was dying well before RAH got involved, and the money RAH invested has certainly helped prop it up since. If you have heavy amounts of money invested, you naturally become able to call some of the shots...In this case they determined that a 190 fit their business model, and was a key to the survival of Midwest (in one shape or another).

The RAH contract was a 4 year deal signed into effect on 10-17-2003. At the time RAH was only Chautauqua Airlines and was fighting off an alter ego, Republic Airlines, after CHQ refused the proposed J4J agreement. There were no 170s on property, and Im not even sure it was certified yet. Job #1 was to protect the jobs at CHQ and keep an alter ego from getting lose. The single pay rate for FOs sticks out like a sore thumb now, but at the time RAH only had ERJ-145 family, so it didnt stick out as much, again scope was #1.

Since the spring of 2007 we've been in contract negotiations to better our current one, but at present a TA has not been presented so its tough to say what has come of them.
 
Just a few thoughts as I am part of the RAH family:

If RAH didn't take the 190s then someone else, maybe SkyWest, would have.

Don't put RAH in the same boat as GoJets. Its not the same and everyone knows it. If every RAH pilot called in sick or refused the 190 then they would be fired and RAH would hire new people to fly the planes. There isn't anything in our contract saying we can refuse to fly a certain type of plane if we are displaced into it.

We are currently in negotiations and people need to hold off on the rock throwing until we bang out our new contract. If it looks anything like Mesa's new CBA then by all means start.

Airdale needs to pull his head out of the sand... Like Kingairer said, if you are really that embarrassed to come to work then go back to where you came from. Its people like you that give people the impression that this group is divided. Weren't you at Colgan before and all you did was complaining about them while you were there? No one said this industry was all roses and teddy bears.

What happened with our union is slowing our negotiations but the new guys we got so far seem to be much better than GS and TM. Just because 4 or 5 guys on the RAH boards want to decert the IBT tomorrow doesn't mean that all 2000 of us do. I wouldn't call that being divided. Most people I have talked to realize that all of our options are on the table (ALPA being a very possible one) and making some knee jerk reaction at this point in negotiations probably isn't the smartest idea. Granted everyone should be watching these new guys like hawks but to not give them a chance is a bad idea.

Other than that I do agree that this whole ordeal is bad for the industry and I hate being a part of it. The union said they are looking into it and right now the whole 100 seat thing isn't jiving with our 99 seat contract. That being said I don't blame it on our pilot group or on anyone except the managment of Mid West. I hate to break it to everyone but if Midwest went to XJT and offered 190s they would have taken em whether the pilot group wanted it or not. The only way to fix this is by getting a contract that pays on par with other mainline operators of this type of aircraft. Realize that it is easy to be the hero from your Saab or CRJ when your company isn't the one "destroying" the industry and you are about to be displaced into the aircraft that is doing it.

And thank God I live in base... :bandit::pop:
 
The only way to fix this is by getting a contract that pays on par with other mainline operators of this type of aircraft. :bandit::pop:

Do you honestly believe that will happen? APC already has RAH 190 pay rates and they are abysmal. The outrage is that a regional airline will be flying EMB-190 airplanes. What next? Your union should be in talks of stopping this not working with it. If this goes through it will be the end of the regionals as we know it. Not to mention the ruined reputation of RAH within the pilot ranks of placing approximately 300 mainline pilots on the streets, while flying their routes with what should be their mainline jets.
 
Do you honestly believe that will happen? The outrage is that a regional airline will be flying EMB-190 airplanes. What next? Your union should be in talks of stopping this not working with it. If this goes through it will be the end of the regionals as we know it.

Thats really easy for everyone to say. So the union stops this and they form a new airline and hire a bunch of people to come operate the shiny new 190s. its not that easy...

And yes I do believe that we can. I don't think too many of us will be voting yes to embarrassing pay rates considering what has been going on lately. Add in a new labor friendly govt. and the public/media becoming aware of the abysmal pay rates/qol at the regional level, a company that is making plenty of money and I think we have a solid chance at winning some industry standard pay rates.
 
Do you honestly believe that will happen? The outrage is that a regional airline will be flying EMB-190 airplanes. What next? Your union should be in talks of stopping this not working with it. If this goes through it will be the end of the regionals as we know it.

They , the union, found out today along with the rest of the world. RAH does not have a pay rate for 100 seat airplane. They are now working on it.
 
Don't put RAH in the same boat as GoJets. Its not the same and everyone knows it. If every RAH pilot called in sick or refused the 190 then they would be fired and RAH would hire new people to fly the planes. There isn't anything in our contract saying we can refuse to fly a certain type of plane if we are displaced into it.

Just slow down and listen to yourself, everyone called in sick and they all would be fired? and who would they hire if all RAH pilots show such unity?
I know I won't.
 
For once Im cheering for Southwest to kill off everything In purple out of MKE and rid the industry of its biggest current cancer. So hate me for saying it. Midwest had a great product now when you have more regional aircraft than mainline and just as large you must as well pull the plug. Republic = the Walmart of regionals. A little bit of everything at a really discounted price.
 
Just a few thoughts as I am part of the RAH family:

If RAH didn't take the 190s then someone else, maybe SkyWest, would have.


This is gonna sound harsh, but I can't think of any other way to say it. That's a lame excuse right there.

I don't blame the RAH pilots. I'm sure you guys were just as blindsided as the rest of us on this one.

Paul, odds are pretty darn good that management didn't even ask them "Do you want those airplanes?" PSA getting asked is HIGHLY unusual. We didn't have a pay rate for the -900 when the deal was inked with Delta, so all we had was the shaky contract language on new aircraft that was signed nearly a decade before. I doubt many management teams would sign a contract that limits them from putting aircraft in service if the union doesn't agree to it. They'll go for language similar to what we have currently: it goes into service while pay is being determined. Pay is then retro'ed once the rate comes in. In our management's case, they lost out. They wanted to pay the FOs on the -900 the same as the -200 and only a small increase on the CA's side. An arbitrator saw it differently. It's not as high as it SHOULD be, so hopefully we can raise it on this next contract.

The only way the pilots are gonna have a say so in if these things are flown at the regional level is pay rates. We SHOULD be fighting to have major level pay rates for aircraft 76+ seats. The cat's been out of the bag on 50 seats for too long, so I think that ship has sailed. Hopefully, the Republic guys can get that on the new contract. Otherwise, I forsee the days of major airlines going away in lieu of regionals flying 737s. The door's open, now we need to work together to close it.
 
ExpressJet doesn't have a 100 seat pay scale.

You can be sure that if something like this happened there, the only thing the XJT MEC, and the XJT pilot group would settle for would be Continental 737 pay rates on the thing.
 
ExpressJet doesn't have a 100 seat pay scale.

You can be sure that if something like this happened there, the only thing the XJT MEC, and the XJT pilot group would settle for would be Continental 737 pay rates on the thing.

There is talk IF eagle gets 170/175 the MEC will want Airways 737/320 rates. Our 50 and 70 seat rates are higher then their 190 rates.
 
There is talk IF eagle gets 170/175 the MEC will want Airways 737/320 rates. Our 50 and 70 seat rates are higher then their 190 rates.

At this point, there's nothing left to lose except for the rest of our careers.

Put simply, if I ever ended up back at the airlines, I'd retire from Express. What is the point of getting senior enough to upgrade in another 5 years, to put in a few years as captain and then get hired on at someplace like Delta when I'm 35.

At that point, we're going to be edging closer and closer to outsourcing all domestic flying to the regionals. Why head to mainline? To "control your own flying?"

Those days are gone, everything will continue to be outsourced. If the last 20 years haven't proven it, I'm not sure what will.
 
ExpressJet doesn't have a 100 seat pay scale.

You can be sure that if something like this happened there, the only thing the XJT MEC, and the XJT pilot group would settle for would be Continental 737 pay rates on the thing.

Again its only been a few hours since anyone has known about this. And its easy for you and even Gonzo to say you would demand 737 pay rates. Luckily we are in negotiations and everyone I know won't be voting for anything less than (mainline) industry average.
 
Again its only been a few hours since anyone has known about this. And its easy for you and even Gonzo to say you would demand 737 pay rates. Luckily we are in negotiations and everyone I know won't be voting for anything less than (mainline) industry average.

Easy to say what we'd demand?

Who's got the industry leading contract?

Who has a union full of ball busters?

I have my utmost faith in the ability of the XJT MEC to nail the company to the wall if this were to happen.
 
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