radio communications loss during hold in IMC

I have always received an EFC time in holding situations in actual instrument conditions. This goes for all instrument procedures, When the weather is actually IFR the controllers up their game. If you are just practicing in VFR weather, or flying in the 1000 foot cloud layer from 4-5 thousand feet, and all you have to do is descend a little they tend to be a little more lax. I'm sure it shouldn't be this way, but if they are assigning visual approaches, I wouldn't expect everything to be by the numbers.

Other examples I can think of are circling instructions, vectors to an approach, and definitely holding. I frequently get, "Hold on your present heading, turn either way and let me know when you want to come out", but in actual weather always get an EFC time. Also the only time I hear "Circle West/East" is in actual IMC. Otherwise I am "breaking off 3 miles out for the left downwind". As we all know this doesn't meet the circling distance requirements.

So I guess what I am saying is that if the weather is IFR you shouldn't have any issues with EFC times, but on the off chance you do, just ask. If you go lost comms and there is anyway to get VFR (i.e decending safely etc...) just get VFR and land, otherwise follow those fun acronyms and all will be well. God help you if you lose all electrical, I guess I would try to break out on top if it was low IFR, and hope that someone sees me on Radar, or use my handheld for a DF steer. (that would be the radio with the dead battery on my desk in the basement). I guess I should get that up and running again. Hopefully you would have a little warning time to get somewhere.
 
Every time I have had to old ATC either gave me an EFC or how many turns they want in the hold. If I lost comm squawk 7600, climb to mea or assigned altitude whichever is higher. Then I'd go by as cleared, as filed or as expected.
 
what if we tweak the situation a bit and go back to that famous "you're the C172 holding outside of JFK, destined to land, IMC, in about 30 minutes." Do you hold up everyone inbound to JFK while you comply with FARs?
 
Well either you hold everyone up or you push everyone out of the way so ATC can clear a path for you. Only way I'd do that is if I was fuel critical.
 
Matt13C said:
So your suggestion is to fly, IMC, with no visible transponder if full electrical failure, to a spot you think is VFR and hope that ATC can read your mind and clear the airspace ahead of you?

Maybe I misunderstood, but that seems like the worst idea.
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How exactly are you going to fly an approach with no electrical? You would have no choice but to find VFR. I was just citing a worse case scenario. If you still had electrical, you would obviously be better off squaking 7600 and continuing as filed.
 
Agreed. It is very important you ask the briefer where the nearest VFR is, when you are about to fly IMC, or look at satellite map of cloud cover.
 
sorrygottarunway said:
what if we tweak the situation a bit and go back to that famous "you're the C172 holding outside of JFK, destined to land, IMC, in about 30 minutes." Do you hold up everyone inbound to JFK while you comply with FARs?
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Well why is there a 172 going into JFK in the first place? :)
 
sorrygottarunway said:
what if we tweak the situation a bit and go back to that famous "you're the C172 holding outside of JFK, destined to land, IMC, in about 30 minutes." Do you hold up everyone inbound to JFK while you comply with FARs?
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That's exactly what i'd do. Better to stick with the FAR's and inconvenience the airlines than risk having the FAA come knocking on your door asking why you didn't follow the FAR's.

Unless as was stated above, you have a fuel situation or some other emergency, then i would continue inbound.
 
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