RAA

[aloft]

[ QUOTE ]
250 hours of Metroliner (insert ay other freight airfram here) time isn't really going to make you that much more marketable than the CFI - who someone has taken a risk with in terms of employing - with 250hrs dual given.

It may not be illegal. But it sure as hell is immoral.

[/ QUOTE ]Oh please. It's not illegal, immoral, or unethical. Some may find it distasteful, others may find it a productive use of their time. Your mileage may vary.

 

[pilot602]

Why is it that everyone misreads posts. No where have I ever said it was illegal.

I do think it's immoral that these companies take advantage of folks by sucking up several tens of thousands of dollars on the premise that the time will help them land a "real" job. I also think it's immoral that they are taking what would/could otherwise be a paid position and is essentially "selling" it to someone willing to pay them to work. I also think it's immoral that it drags down the payscale for every working pilot.

250 hours of paid, "FO" time in a broken down metroliner won't help anyone land a job.

400 or 500 or, more likely, 1,000 hours of dual given, will.


Just my opinion.

 

[DE727UPS]

Great...another PFT thread.

PFT is bad for the piloting profession simply because it takes a paying job away from someone and gets management used to pilots being a revenue source.

It's great for the industry...from the management perspective.

PFT is worth it for some guys...like a military helo pilot who has tons of rotor wing experience but needs a little fixed wing turbine time to get noticed. For that guy....PFT makes sense. At the same time he's helping to lower the bar on, and bring down the profession, while he's helping himself.

PFT is perfectly legal if the company goes though the steps to get their program approved by the FAA and follows the rules.

Is PFT moral? Depends on the individual...everyone who has an opinion gets to make that call. Bottom line, it's not good for the profession and I always advise guys to not do it.

When you see the rare person at an aviation forum that is a proponent of PFT...ask yourself what is that persons experience in the industry and why do they believe in PFT. I think you'll find very few airline pilots who think PFT is a good idea.

 

[DE727UPS]

"The industry benefits by cheaper labor costs"

Marine Nav, would you be willing to take a pay cut to "benefit your industry"? I didn't think so.

"The airline pays for the training once you're hired and you are legally bound to work for X number of years"

This has been done before and is called a training contract. I have no problem with training contracts that are fair. This is much preferable to PFT in my book.

"I am for one all encompassing pilot union for all commericial turbo-prop & jet part-121 carriers."

Are you saying one union or one seniority list? There pretty much already is one union, ALPA, with a few other minor players. If you are saying one seniority list, it won't ever happen as it's way to complex to implement. Are you saying I should give up my number to a 20 year USair guy who wants my slot?

 

[MarineNav]

Hello DE727UPS,

Me take a pay cut to benefit my industry? I certainly wouldn't want to, but it would depends on the facts, job market, my goals, situation, other opportunities, etc. Then again, it would probably be "take it or leave" situation so I'd probably have to keep the job until I found something better or an alternative.

I'm saying only one union for ALL with each airline having it's own seniority list. As much as possible, all the airlines would have the same rules, same payrates based on aircraft & seniority, etc.

JR

 

[DE727UPS]

It's an interesting idea to force one pay rate on the industry via union contracts. One nationwide scale based on your seat and years of service. If the MEC's could all get together and make it happen it would be amazing. The problem I see is that you'd have to raise everyone to the highest scale because no group is going to want to take a cut to be "standardized".

 

[derg]

Pay for training is bad news no matter how it's slathered in butter and cinnamon.

In it's most basic sense, it takes advantage of people with a fat pockets of cash and little industry knowledge and promises a 'short cut'.

It's more or less an industries method of enabling you to ethically prostitute yourself under the guise of moving ahead in a career -- kind of a aeronautical 'casting couch'.

The people that are truly hurt are the ones that have ethics enough not to get involved in such a program, and it in turn hurts everyone in the profession.

If my union allowed my employer to sell right seat time to low time pilots, they would in a heartbeat and pilots would like up in a queue blocks long for the priviledge to do so. Then the question would be, what would happen to the professional pilots that fly in order to pay the mortgage, put gas in the car and food on their families table?

Sorry, that job is now a commodity for time builders, but we'll sell you your job back at a steep discount and perhaps one day you could move to the left seat!