Question regarding landing fees

Jayrock

Well-Known Member
How are landing fees calculated at airports such as LAX and SAN? Where and whom are they paid to? The scenario would most likely be a c172 with a few passengers, either performing a touch and go or taxi back--late at night.

BTW, I've heard everything from $0-100 including, you can't land at all. Yeah right!
 
I think I read somewhere about O'hare, where late at night the controlers enjoy watching small planes do touch and goes, but later on the airport police try to make you land full stop and pay for your landings. So I think this means you dont pay for touch and goes, and obviously (at least at ohare) the controlers dont regulate it.

Tom
 
I think you would be waiting a LONG time to land at a big airport like LAX, but I dont know. The controlers at O'hare would probly laugh at you or make you wait so long you would be discouraged to land there. Why you would want to land THERE, instead of palwalkee (spelled that wrong) or midway for that matter is beyond me.

Tom
 
[ QUOTE ]
I think you would be waiting a LONG time to land at a big airport like LAX, but I dont know. The controlers at O'hare would probly laugh at you or make you wait so long you would be discouraged to land there. Why you would want to land THERE, instead of palwalkee (spelled that wrong) or midway for that matter is beyond me.

Tom

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, or they may just say no. From what I've heard, most people in small planes only get in late and when it's slow. Not a problem for me; I just thought it would be a neat experience nonetheless. Moreover, I wouldn't want to land and find myself slapped with huge landing fee.
 
Heck, you could pull two touch and goes on one pass on one of LAX's runways. Bounce, bounce, bounce........
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There was an article in private pilot a few months ago about a trip into LAX with a small plane.. it's doable, but you definately have to know what you are doing, plan a lot out ahead of time (call the proper controller facilities), etc.. You also have to full stop park. The FBOs there are probably pretty pricey as well, since they cater to business traffic.
 
Having flown into both LAX, and SAN the way the landing fee works for small aircraft is all you are required to pay is a ramp fee. This is the fee the FBO charges you for parking, and has nothing to do with the airport. I am sure you are thinking well I am not planning on parking - but read on.

Most people think if you are flying into LAX, SAN, etc you have to do it at 2 o'clock in the morning, fly your approach at 140+ kts, and touch and goes are the way to go. First time I flew into LAX, it was during the 5 o'clock rush hour (I was VFR btw), I had to hold for a few minutes, and then got vectored in behind a turbo prop, being followed by a 767. I just flew a normal approach, and we were all fine. Now the reason you can not just ask for a taxi back, and have to go to parking, if the controller is busy, they do not mind you go there if you have a reason - but just to play or to get LAX in the log book, expect either a phone number, or the airport authority to stop you before you depart, and chew you out.

My advice on flying small aircraft into large airports is 2 fold - first of all fly your plane like you have been taught, do not fly an approach at over 100 knots (unless asked), ATC is not expecting it, and has spaced you accordingly.

I was departing out of LAX one evening with Ed once, and we did a rolling run up, and were planning to test the mags as we held short of the runway. As we got to the hold short bars, we were cleared for take off. We took the active (the runway they were using for landing) and as he throttled up he checked the mags, and yes one was dirty. So here we are on the runway at LAX, cleared to take off but we had a bad mag. Ed taxied the plane clear of the active, and advised tower that we had a technical problem, and we would be clear the runway and troublshoot on the taxiway. Many GA pilots feel threatened by controllers, especially ones at large airports, but he is there to help you. Ours offered services, we advised there was no need. Once we had cleaned it off, we got clearance and departed. We did have a police car monitor us as we sorted out our problem, but in a post 9/11 that was hardly surprising. Looking back I think many people would have felt pressured to depart, but at the end of the day, we had a problem, that we needed to take care of before we departed. We were lucky, where we were it was quiet, there was no aircraft behind us so we could just exit where we entered. We could have easily been blocked in a bit more if there was more movement on the cargo ramp. If we had been blocked in, we would have had to taxi to the next exit, which could have caused an airliner to go around. Now I am sure A300Capt, DE727UPS, Doug, et al would rather small airplanes stay at small airports, and leave the large airports for big planes, but I am as confident that if you were there, and were on the active with a problem they would much rather go around then you feel pressured, or worry about the $10K it is going to cost their company, and take off with an unsafe aircraft.

My other advise is to always take 2 pilots. All the airlines have 2, and it is just easier to share the workload; having someone turn in frequencies, get out the taxi chart, look for traffic, etc is very helpful.

Your airplane flies no different going into LAX then it does going to FUL - so do not fly it different. Just remember that everyone flying into LAX is a professional, so if you are going in there you have to adhere to there professional standards.
 
[ QUOTE ]
My advice on flying small aircraft into large airports is 2 fold - first of all fly your plane like you have been taught, do not fly an approach at over 100 knots (unless asked), ATC is not expecting it, and has spaced you accordingly.


[/ QUOTE ]

And ATC will ask for "best speed to 2/1 miles", etc if they need it.

[ QUOTE ]

My other advise is to always take 2 pilots. All the airlines have 2, and it is just easier to share the workload; having someone turn in frequencies, get out the taxi chart, look for traffic, etc is very helpful.


[/ QUOTE ]

For those with crew-dependency.
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[ QUOTE ]
Having flown into both LAX, and SAN the way the landing fee works for small aircraft is all you are required to pay is a ramp fee. This is the fee the FBO charges you for parking, and has nothing to do with the airport. I am sure you are thinking well I am not planning on parking - but read on.

Most people think if you are flying into LAX, SAN, etc you have to do it at 2 o'clock in the morning, fly your approach at 140+ kts, and touch and goes are the way to go. First time I flew into LAX, it was during the 5 o'clock rush hour (I was VFR btw), I had to hold for a few minutes, and then got vectored in behind a turbo prop, being followed by a 767. I just flew a normal approach, and we were all fine. Now the reason you can not just ask for a taxi back, and have to go to parking, if the controller is busy, they do not mind you go there if you have a reason - but just to play or to get LAX in the log book, expect either a phone number, or the airport authority to stop you before you depart, and chew you out.

My advice on flying small aircraft into large airports is 2 fold - first of all fly your plane like you have been taught, do not fly an approach at over 100 knots (unless asked), ATC is not expecting it, and has spaced you accordingly.

I was departing out of LAX one evening with Ed once, and we did a rolling run up, and were planning to test the mags as we held short of the runway. As we got to the hold short bars, we were cleared for take off. We took the active (the runway they were using for landing) and as he throttled up he checked the mags, and yes one was dirty. So here we are on the runway at LAX, cleared to take off but we had a bad mag. Ed taxied the plane clear of the active, and advised tower that we had a technical problem, and we would be clear the runway and troublshoot on the taxiway. Many GA pilots feel threatened by controllers, especially ones at large airports, but he is there to help you. Ours offered services, we advised there was no need. Once we had cleaned it off, we got clearance and departed. We did have a police car monitor us as we sorted out our problem, but in a post 9/11 that was hardly surprising. Looking back I think many people would have felt pressured to depart, but at the end of the day, we had a problem, that we needed to take care of before we departed. We were lucky, where we were it was quiet, there was no aircraft behind us so we could just exit where we entered. We could have easily been blocked in a bit more if there was more movement on the cargo ramp. If we had been blocked in, we would have had to taxi to the next exit, which could have caused an airliner to go around. Now I am sure A300Capt, DE727UPS, Doug, et al would rather small airplanes stay at small airports, and leave the large airports for big planes, but I am as confident that if you were there, and were on the active with a problem they would much rather go around then you feel pressured, or worry about the $10K it is going to cost their company, and take off with an unsafe aircraft.

My other advise is to always take 2 pilots. All the airlines have 2, and it is just easier to share the workload; having someone turn in frequencies, get out the taxi chart, look for traffic, etc is very helpful.

Your airplane flies no different going into LAX then it does going to FUL - so do not fly it different. Just remember that everyone flying into LAX is a professional, so if you are going in there you have to adhere to there professional standards.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow, thanks for the insight and perspective! Definitely more things to be considered than a few $$$.
 
Just reading on what you guys have written, I have actually been vectored into LAX without a wait once (I have been in there about 4 or 5 times now) I was vectored over LGB, most of the time it is 1-3 circles over Compton.

I have never heard 'no' I have been questioned by clearnace, and Socal, if I mean Los Angeles International Airport quite a few times, but never I have I been turned away.

I think most people think if you are asking to go in there, you have business, doing so and have a reason to do so.

Please remember I learnt to fly out of SNA, which has a lot of the same variables (wake turbulance, jetblast, radio procdures,) and standards as LAX. If you have been flying out of small airports, get experience flying into Class C (with your instructor) that has airline operations before you go into the really big stuff. And when you do that take someone who has done it before - if you get behind at these airports you are in trouble.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Just reading on what you guys have written, I have actually been vectored into LAX without a wait once (I have been in there about 4 or 5 times now) I was vectored over LGB, most of the time it is 1-3 circles over Compton.

I have never heard 'no' I have been questioned by clearnace, and Socal, if I mean Los Angeles International Airport quite a few times, but never I have I been turned away.

I think most people think if you are asking to go in there, you have business, doing so and have a reason to do so.

Please remember I learnt to fly out of SNA, which has a lot of the same variables (wake turbulance, jetblast, radio procdures,) and standards as LAX. If you have been flying out of small airports, get experience flying into Class C (with your instructor) that has airline operations before you go into the really big stuff. And when you do that take someone who has done it before - if you get behind at these airports you are in trouble.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cool, I fly out of The O.C. too, I meant SNA.
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Which flight school? One of the users here is an instructor out of Lenair. Infact one of my trips to LAX I went with their assistant cheif CFI.
 
Remember in the US unlike other countries any airport that takes federal funds and almost all do, is public use and they can't tell you to go elsewhere. ATC might hold you for spacing or other traffic reasons but they will get you in. As for landing fees, I dont think LAX has one(not 100% sure), but you do pay the ramp fee if you use an FBO. Alot of airports have landing fees, but its paid only by 121 and 135 flights and in the case of my airports anything over 12,500 max take-off weight, and for us its billed directly by the Dept of Airports, you get a bill in the mail. Other airports have an agreement with the FBOs to collect the landing fee.
 
It is worth saying that listening to busy airports' frequencies from the internet or in person on a radio will make you more familiar with expected standards and procedures at the airport.

I've seen little GA aircraft coming into LHR in the middle of the mid-morning heavies departure push for transatlantic, at the same time as the arrivals push from Europe hits, they vectored the plane to land on the departure runway, since the GA terminal is that side of the airport, he only used a third of the runway, and didn't delay a departure as a wake turbulence delay would have held the next plane on the ground anyway.

I was still there when the same plane left and it taxied out to the departure runway and was given an intersection departure to avoid queuing in jet-blast at the departure end, it was departed behind a BAe 146 to avoid too much wake and was given what looked like a 90 degree turn once airborne to get it out of the SIDs for the jets.

Keeps the controllers on their toes any way
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Great info here; only thing to add is flying into ONT is a great prep to LAX; ONT is basically one half LAX.
 
A friend of mine had to fly into Laguardia, so I flew him in a Piper Cherokee...landing and security fees $119
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(he already knew what to expect and didn't mind paying it).

Overall a very good flight, but be ready for anything. I was cleared between 2 MD-80's for landing, told to keep speed up to the numbers, landed 1/2 way down the runway. Right turn-off to the FBO and parked a few spots down from Donald Trump's airplane.

Getting out was interesting. I had a 10 minute wait with clearance delivery as he was pretty busy. He acted like he was talking to a 5 year old at first with the clearance, then I rattled it all back and he was more comfortable talking to me. The controllers didn't want to make everybody wait, and since I guess I sounded like I knew what I was doing, they had me do an intersection departure on the arrival runway. I still cannot believe I forgot my camera for it, though
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. I had the best view of downtown NYC ever, right at sunset.

i always carry my camera in my bag now.
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[ QUOTE ]
Great info here; only thing to add is flying into ONT is a great prep to LAX; ONT is basically one half LAX.

[/ QUOTE ]

Definitely lots of good info here! And although I haven't been to ONT, I have been to LAS. It was very professional and busy too. You’ll also be much better off if you have a taxi diagram out, anticipating your moves ahead of time.

Actually, today I flew the shoreline through LAX class B airspace. To say they were busy is an understatement. Initially when I changed frequencies it took about 5 minutes to check in! Got to hand it to those controllers.
 
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