Question on age vs. debt to start flight training...

TexasFlyer

TexasFlyer

Living the Dream (well at least trying to)
Here are a couple facts. I am not decided on a school yet as first I need to determine realistic timing. I would really like honest answers from current students and current CFI's and commercial pilot's on what they feel is the best choice and why. The two factors here are my age when starting a program vs. debt that will be taken on. Which would you choose and why if your ultimate goal was to get to a major airline and your age may be counting against you?

1) I can start a flight program at the age of 34. I will be 100% debt free but have to finance a huge amount as I will have zero savings to fall back on.

2) I can start a flight program one year and 6 months later at the age of 35 and 6 months. I will be 100% debt free but will also have at least $42k in cash saved up to help reduce the burden of repaying back financing.

Which is the smarter choice factoring in my goal, my age, and the debt I'll take on to complete a program quickly at that point.

Thanks,
JOE
 
Wow, I would probably wait seeing how Skymates (which seems like a great school and is near you) would cost something like $42k for 365/200multi. I know that if I could not be in debt for just waiting a year and a half, I would do it. Then again I'm 19 so I don't really know much about the age thing dealing with airlines, someone else is gonna have to chime in on that.
 
Hey Texasflyer !!

Sounds as if your off to a good start being debt free... no doubt this will certainly help in the long run. If you do a quick keyword search for loans.. flight loans. etc.. there are quite a few posts that hash it all out with alot of differant valueable points from alot of people.

I'd say however right now why not find a good local FBO or somewhere nearby to knock out your PPL to get things rolling while your saving over the next year... (.. never thought I'd type the words saving money and flying together !! ) Meanwhile do your research and find the route that fits your goals so when the time comes next year you can take the plunge with minimal debt.

I don't think one year isn't going to make or break you in terms of your age... there are many on this board your age or older who have made the transition. As for the state of the industry a a year from now versus when you'll finish training... as many have said before it's quite cyclical.. that's already a given ... but if ya want it bad enough get out there and plan to make it happen !!


Best of Luck !!


tongue.gif
 
My advice, wait the extra time. You sould be able to get all your ratings done for under $42K, and the lack of loan payments on a CFI/regional FO salary will be well worth the wait.
 
Thanks for getting the advice rolling. I see a theme. This is helpful and a little oposite of what I thought since I felt age is counting against me now.

This will clarify a couple things... I do have a PPL but have only 80 hours and have not flown since 1998. I got the PPL at 41 hours back in college but I took a "money route" and spent it like a young fool until the economy busted and spun my into debt to save my good credit... but now things are back on track to get that huge amount of debt paid down as I been working for a year diligently to do so. Flying for a living is my life passion. So now I am paying all my debt back at a rate of $2,250 a month (I have $2250 to $3500 a month left over after my regular bills like house, utilities, spending,etc.).

The way that works out is that in exactly 17 months I will have my new mini-cooper (figured I needed a fun and reliable car for school that I'd be happy with for 10 years from now), the awful credit cards that are slowly getting back under control, and the old college student loan paid for which is 9 years old now but at least I have a BS degree out of the way. Then I can save between $2,250 and $3,000 a month in cash as long as I can stand to continue being invited back every day at my current firm which has a burnout rate of over 50% due to high stress and 60 hour work weeks. But the reward is that it pays a minimum of $96k and a realistic year is $105k to $115k. Hence how I can save a lot of cash, but it at the price of my health, my sanity, and my quality of life. So I have no time to regain currency as a PPL, but I plan to hack out the 8am to 8pm schedule of a Talent Searcher for about another 24 months and hopefully make it to 30 months before I tell the corporate office job where to go (I am so axiously awaiting that day and then to hear everyone tell me what a fool I am for walking away from such a job... I welcome the comments as I already heard them all from my parents!).

I figure the $30k to $40k I save is "insurance money" which will cover my housing, car insurance, and spending money while pursuing my ratings full time for about 8-12 months. Then whatever is left over I'll make as my first loan payments since I'll finance as much as I can. I'd rather be safe than sorry since I hear too many stories of people falling short on cash. And while I make a ton of income now and my credit is perfect, I will be quiting that job obviously and I will NOT have a co-signer. So my loan amount I figure is limited to the $50k to $80k range (I have about $80k of credit available on plastic but that is an absoltue last resort as I learned my lesson on those evil things). So that should certainly be enough to get through the ratings since a school like DCA is not a choice for me, even though Pan-Am and Flight Safey are possibilities since I like the academy concept as I need a very structued program to get through quickly since I know I may slack off if left to my own devices at a small FBO style program. Ari-Ben Aviator though is my third choice though behind Pan-Am and FSA since they seem to have a great cost effective program and the student life there seems to be structured enough to keep me focused enough to get through.

So that is all my thoughts. Sorry for the novel and info overload. I still welcome more opinions as you all on this board are a great help. Also, don't call me crazy for walking away from a job I can retire from in 10 years and buy my own plane to fly around in since it's a $100k to $150k per year job. This job very well may kill a person in 10 years and the income fluctuates with the economy as in any business. The next 5-8 years looks great in this business, but $150k can become $40k real fast as I learned a few years back and that makes life tough if you were spending your $150k on too many toys and women. My passion is to fly and I know my worst day flying is better than my best day tethered to the phone while yanking on the mouse in my office. And heck, I can always go back from where I can from if I had to; and god do I hope I never have to!

JOE
 
10 years ago, I would have said go now to save that year. Now, a year isn't going to make that much of a difference until the majors start hiring en masse again.
 
Texas,

That sounds like a very solid plan. I was in much the same boat as you were.

A couple of things come to mind that I experienced.

The first is life happens. After reading your second post about your plan, it seems like you are keeping the corporate gig for about 30 months. That's 2.5 years. A lot, and I mean A LOT can happen in that time. Love, financial drama, health, family issues can, and will, all happen during that time period.

I went through the "if I can make it two more years, I will have 'X' accomplished so I can start flight training."

The truth is, there is never a perfect time to start. Something ALWAYS comes up. A promotion, you fall in love, an injury or any number of other things. I found myself saying, "OK, that will add three months to my plan... If I can just hold out another three months everything will be perfect."

My two year plan turned in to a three year plan before I even realized it After all the planning in the world, all the saving, all the debt reduction, everything; I literally woke up one morning and said to myself: "everyday I spend doing 'X" is one less day I spend flying planes."

I called my folks, talked to a couple of friends and that day turned in my notice. Everybody I talked to said I should have made the decision three years ago. There is no logical, planned time for an adult to make the decision to chuck it all and go to flight school.

The second... A MINI? Dude, chick car! Just kidding. In fact, I had the same get a fun car for training thing that you did. I almost bought one myself - was sitting in the dealership ready to sign on the line. I, having lots of experience with foreign cars, opted not to buy a German car built in England. I bought a piece of junk instead. I am going with the buy a crap car every six months routine.

I see from your profile that you went to Wright State. You from Ohio?
 
I wouldn't go deeply into debt just to get a job. Even if that job is flying airplanes for a living. Especially after working so hard to get out of a mountain of debt like you are doing right now.

I know......I'm weird.
smile.gif
 
I was 37 when I started flying and had a mortgage, two car payments and a school loan payment.

Since then, both vehicles have been paid off so, incurring the additional Sallie Mae loan payment for training isn't as big a burden.

When/if you decide to go into training full banger - try to go in with as little debt as possible.

The very BEST way to do it is to "pay as you go" or better said: save money and don't incur any debt.

"sbe" on this site is doing/did that very thing and when she's done, she'll have all of her ratings and a $0 balance owing.

Now THAT's the way to go!

Start saving now. Best of luck and keep us posted!

R2F
 
Looking down, thanks for the advice. And yes, I am from Ohio. Grew up in Dayton, OH and then moved to Boston,MA and now in San Antonio, TX.

I hear you on the "things change". I was in this exact position making a huge income back in 2001 with 1 more year left to attain my goal and then the job market crashed. I sank into a ton of debt and ended up leaving Boston in 2003 Paying $3k a month for a crap apartment in the city and working as a headhunter in an ultra-competitive market was continuing to sink me into debt. So I moved to San Antonio to "recover". Now I am back on the way to recovery, for lack of better terms. I'll be debt free from everything except the car in about 8 months. So I forsee that going as planned. Beyond that, it's just paying off the "chick car" and selling my house and then flight school somewhere. If I sense trouble, selling the house and car and hitting school sooner is always an option to get there quicker. I'm just worried about the cash situation starting school since I want to be 100% certain money is not a factor, hence why I'd live to have a nice nest of money for back-up. Unfortunitely, every person I know onyl sees me from the oustide and sees I make $100k and says I am nuts for changing back to something I have to start over in, especially since the odds say I'll make around $300k+ in my current business in 5-8 years from now versus never make that money as a pilot and potentially live only average or less my whole life. They don't understand that my worst day flying is better than any day I'll have in an office convincing people to change jobs. So I have no one suportinr me in this decision, besides my own motivation and desire. But you are right, I already seen my plan foiled once and I figure this is my last shot since I'm almost 32 sitting here today and will absolutely be in that school no later than 34. You all on here been very useful though and gave me good things to think about since I'm alone in this decision. Your all my support group for the next year or two! JOE
 
You are on the right path and doing it the right way. The right way is however it works for you. There are 119,426 ways to become a professional pilot. When I started there were 119,425.

As for support, this seems to be a good place to start. Join AOPA or a local flying club. Hang out with aviation people and you will get all the support you can imagine. I have never met a group of people so willing to help with the process, decision making, etc.

Your family and friends may never understand what you are doing. I guess I am lucky. After initial skepticism, most everyone in my inner circle of friends have come around. My family is actually excited for me. The tide should turn. And truth be told, while it would be nice, does it matter what they think?

I am from Cincinnati, graduated from Ohio U, live in DC now. Sorry about the “chick car” comment. Sometimes my sense of humor does not transfer to the written word as well as I would like.
 
Don's right. If I had the money to do that, I would have. The advantage is that you can re-sell the plane for almost what you paid for it at the end of your training. This SIGNIFICANTLY reduces the cost of your training. You don't need anything fancy, just an old, beat up (but airworthy) IFR 172 would do it. You can rent an Arrow for the retract time on the commercial, and you can rent a Seminole to get the ME rating. You'll probably get close to 240 hours in the 172, so multiply that by around $60 (or any other dry rates in your area).
 
I would consider buying a plane to train in, but the stress of hoping nothing significant goes wrong with it along with the insurance, hanger fee and etc. would just add to some stress. So while it may be smarter financially, the added stress and responsibility is not something I do want to take on. I'd rather just stick with a real structured program at an academy or similar program since without a very structured plan / training, I tend to slack off and look for more immediate rewards. That suggestion I am sure will help others.
 
[ QUOTE ]
They don't understand that my worst day flying is better than any day I'll have in an office convincing people to change jobs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi there,
Just curious how you are qualified to make this statement? Have you flown professionaly before?
 
Yes. I flown but not professionally. I have only 80 hours as a PPL, but that's old news.
 
I decided not to change careers myself. I am making close to what you are making and i decided I really enjoyed having toys and wokring a crappy job than I did flying for peanuts.

Lately, I have been rethinking all of that. Primarily since I finished my private and I am not at the airport as often.

I was pretty close to buying an airplane myself to build time in and work on some ratings but the seller turned crazy! (ask Grabo) My wife and I figure since I am no longer in the big rush I once put myself in that we will wait until we can buy an airplane to work on more ratings.I look back at the $6500 I paid in airplane rental for my private and realize about $3k of that could have been equity in an airplane I own. Sounds like you have a really good plan though.

I'd stick with it. Wait the extra year or two and be debt free.
 
[ QUOTE ]


I was pretty close to buying an airplane myself to build time in and work on some ratings but the seller turned crazy! (ask Grabo)

[/ QUOTE ]

"Us: Mr. X, We'll offer you $20,000 for your non IFR, one broke radio, no working NAV and Broke LORAN C-150 with a relatively good time engine."

Original Advertised price of $23,900 not listing any broken equipment

"Mr. X : No, but now my price is $25,500."

He's crazy with a CAPITAL J...
spin2.gif
insane.gif
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top