question for you controllers...

jtrain609 said:
That's because I do.



Correct, but I still have the ultimate authority as to whether I'll accept and thus follow the clearance or not. If I won't, or can't, I'll let you know and we'll likely find a solution to whatever problem exists pretty quickly.



I agree with you completely, and frankly that opinion is rubbish on the part of my colleagues. I'll make a request, and if you can't grant it, and I still NEED it, then I'll declare an emergency. If I don't NEED it, then I follow the previous clearance and go about my way.

But just because I REQUEST direct to my destination, and you deny it, doesn't mean I'm simply going to do it anyway. If I NEED to go direct for some reason, I'll declare an emergency and inform you of my intentions.

And I should clarify this point, because many controllers aren't pilots. So when we had an electrical failure, and needed to return to the airport we departed from (Oakland, in this case), and we told the controller this and requested a turn and a descent (which we NEEDED because we had also lost the cabin and were thus unpressurized) and he said "Unable" about three times, we finally said, "We are descending to 10,000', we are turning to heading 270, we are declaring an emergency and we have 3 hours of fuel and 4 souls on board" the controller WAS PISSED.

There was no need to be pissed. We had a serious emergency on our hands, he didn't understand that, and we did what we had to do.

So you also have to understand that many of us have had our concepts of what is acceptable formed by your colleagues interactions with us. When we're in a situation where what we do in the next few minutes will decide whether we live or die (and I've been in a small handful of those situations), the concept that we're not in control is laughable at best.




Exactly.

I should also say, if you're working in Newark, you guys do some of the absolute best work out there. I've been based in Newark for most of my short airline career, and I've NEVER had a problem getting what I NEEDED when it hit the fan, and you guys have been better than ANY other airport in getting us what we need to do our job. You can't ask for better controllers, in my view.
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If you declare an emergency then of course...you will do whatever the situation calls for, and I in turn will do everything to the extent possible to assist you, including clearing all other traffic out of your way. We're on the same team here..... your safety is my job!

And yes, I work the EWR sector at New York Approach. We're located in Westbury, Long Island, but we do work all the airspace over most of NJ. If you're based in Newark, then you talk to me on a regular basis on one of these frequencys: 119.2 (Departure), 128.55 (ARD), 120.15 (North Arrival), 127.6 (Mugzy), 132.8 (Metro), 125.5 (Final Vector).

What company do you fly for?
 
N90-EWR said:
If you declare an emergency then of course...you will do whatever the situation calls for, and I in turn will do everything to the extent possible to assist you, including clearing all other traffic out of your way. We're on the same team here..... your safety is my job!

And yes, I work the EWR sector at New York Approach. We're located in Westbury, Long Island, but we do work all the airspace over most of NJ. If you're based in Newark, then you talk to me on a regular basis on one of these frequencys: 119.2 (Departure), 128.55 (ARD), 120.15 (North Arrival), 132.8 (Metro), 125.5 (Final Vector).

What company do you fly for?
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One that has a base in Newark :)
 
TripSix said:
Both were IFR, both were operating within Bravo airspace, neither had equipment/aircraft issues.

This kind of stuff happens ALL day, EVERY day.

As a pilot, you may not hear it happen a lot. But as controllers, who work in large facilities (with multiple combined frequencies) we get this day in and day out.

I believe THIS is the kind of stuff he was referring to, not the "fly heading..." right into a mountain stuff.
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Impressive. I firmly believe that SoCal would flip a doodie if I tried something like that - air carrier or otherwise.
 
Just read through the thread.

Suspicions confirmed, some pilots really do think they know the big picture... Yeesh.

Every website I've ever seen this type of thread, there's always one or two pilots who get their backs up "ITS MY AIRPLANE AND I WILL DO WHAT IS SAFE"

Yea, no kidding, but 99.9% of the time, there's no emergency, and complying to ATC instructions does not constitute a safety hazard, so yes when ATC issues an instruction you WILL follow it 100%.

If there is a safety related issue, then ATC will bend over backwards and move 100 airplanes out of your way, if there's not, then just follow the instruction without the ego.

Keep in mind, we don't like making useless radio calls either, or making more work. If every airplane on the planet could be cleared Direct the threshold and "Contact Tower" We would, Every damn day. Problem is, you're not the only airplane in the sky, and no you're not special because your mommy is proud of you.

Sorry to rant, like N90-EWR I've had an absolute run of idiot pilots not doing what they're instructed to do and causing some serious safety hazards... nature of the job, but it sure is frustrating.
 
canadian_atc said:
Just read through the thread.

Suspicions confirmed, some pilots really do think they know the big picture... Yeesh.

Every website I've ever seen this type of thread, there's always one or two pilots who get their backs up "ITS MY AIRPLANE AND I WILL DO WHAT IS SAFE"

Yea, no kidding, but 99.9% of the time, there's no emergency, and complying to ATC instructions does not constitute a safety hazard, so yes when ATC issues an instruction you WILL follow it 100%.

If there is a safety related issue, then ATC will bend over backwards and move 100 airplanes out of your way, if there's not, then just follow the instruction without the ego.

Keep in mind, we don't like making useless radio calls either, or making more work. If every airplane on the planet could be cleared Direct the threshold and "Contact Tower" We would, Every damn day. Problem is, you're not the only airplane in the sky, and no you're not special because your mommy is proud of you.

Sorry to rant, like N90-EWR I've had an absolute run of idiot pilots not doing what they're instructed to do and causing some serious safety hazards... nature of the job, but it sure is frustrating.
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Canadian controller: Whipsaw 1234, turn left heading 270.

Me: Left 270, Whipsaw 1234.

Canadian controller: Roger.

Me: Roger.

Canadian controller: Roger.

Me: Roger.

Canadian controller: Roger.





Sorry, couldn't resist (and no I've never played this game, though I'd love to one day!).
 
jtrain609 said:
Canadian controller: Whipsaw 1234, turn left heading 270.

Me: Left 270, Whipsaw 1234.

Canadian controller: Roger.

Me: Roger.

Canadian controller: Roger.

Me: Roger.

Canadian controller: Roger.





Sorry, couldn't resist (and no I've never played this game, though I'd love to one day!).
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Whipsaw 1234, Thanks For All You Do, contact departure on 125.4, safe flight.
 
jtrain609 said:
Canadian controller: Whipsaw 1234, turn left heading 270.

Me: Left 270, Whipsaw 1234.

Canadian controller: Roger.

Me: Roger.

Canadian controller: Roger.

Me: Roger.

Canadian controller: Roger.





Sorry, couldn't resist (and no I've never played this game, though I'd love to one day!).
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I had never flown in canada till about 2 months ago and holy mother of jesus ain't that the truth!


Mapledonut-eating controller: Aztec 123 cleared takeoff 12 maintain RH

Me: cleared takeoff 12 RH aztec 123

Mapledonut-eating controller: Roger


We always make fun of them; it just seems so unnecessary!


I should play that game tomorrow!
 
It's a culture thing I think mostly, I believe anyway.

The idea is to confirm your readback, although not a requirement, some units it's more prevalent, personally I use it when the pilots readback has an inflection that he's not sure of the clearance.

jtrain609
 
N90-EWR said:
And yes, I work the EWR sector at New York Approach. We're located in Westbury, Long Island, but we do work all the airspace over most of NJ. If you're based in Newark, then you talk to me on a regular basis on one of these frequencys: 119.2 (Departure), 128.55 (ARD), 120.15 (North Arrival), 127.6 (Mugzy), 132.8 (Metro), 125.5 (Final Vector).
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Ya'll do good work! Best in the business.

(from a non-EWR based pilot that frequents EWR quite a bit in "not embraer" aircraft :))
 
N90-EWR said:
If you're based in Newark, then you talk to me on a regular basis on one of these frequencys: 119.2 (Departure), 128.55 (ARD), 120.15 (North Arrival), 127.6 (Mugzy), 132.8 (Metro), 125.5 (Final Vector).
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As a former EWR guy, it was always a pleasure. You guys do an incredible job.
 
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