question for you CFI's

Tokyo007

Tokyo007

Well-Known Member
question for you CFI\'s

2 questions..


getting close to my commercial checkride.. I've heard a rumor that examiners frown on FTD's used as total time. I'm part 61 with ~230 hours total flight time and 22 hours sim time. Have you guys ever heard of examiners questioning this? One of the cfi's at my school suggested to be safe and fly the remaning 20 hours
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I'm looking for the regs but sim time seems to be a gray area.

here's the pic of the FTD
simlab.jpg


second question..

after getting the commercial manuvers down my cfi offered to give me my complex endorsement a few lessons ago.. someone told me the examiner wants 10 hours complex required AFTER you get the endorsent which would be a problem.. have you guys ever heard of this?
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I'm going to call the examiners but the school cfi's are scaring me with news that some examiners will stop the checkride before it begins..

Thanks in advance -

Matthew
 
Re: question for you CFI\'s

[ QUOTE ]

after getting the commercial manuvers down my cfi offered to give me my complex endorsement a few lessons ago.. someone told me the examiner wants 10 hours complex required AFTER you get the endorsent which would be a problem.. have you guys ever heard of this?
confused.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

(S)he's an idiot. It this examiner is making things up. Find a new examiner.
 
Re: question for you CFI\'s

If the CFI is telling you that you need 10 hours after the endorsment, he/she is probably trying to get some additional money out of you. There is no time requirement for the endorsment.
 
Re: question for you CFI\'s

[ QUOTE ]
getting close to my commercial checkride.. I've heard a rumor that examiners frown on FTD's used as total time.

[/ QUOTE ]If you're talking about including FTD time in your "flight time" totals, there's an excellent reason for the frown. Although training received in an simulator of FTD counts toward total "pilot time" time in a simulator or FTD =never= counts toward total "flight time." Most logbooks have a column for "total duration of flight" or "total flight time" which does not include sim or FTD time. Need a reg? Go look at the definition of "flight time" in FAR 1.1

But 61.129(i) does allow you to use up to 50 hours of instructional time in a sim/FTD that simulates an SEL toward the 250 total required, (assuming we're talking about an SEL rating) so 230 hours in aircraft plus 30 hours in an FTD does meet the requirements. If the DE is refusing to accept =that= then the DPE is out of line and needs to be reeducated in the regulations before doing an oral exam where he tests other on them.

[ QUOTE ]
after getting the commercial maneuvers down my cfi offered to give me my complex endorsement a few lessons ago.. someone told me the examiner wants 10 hours complex required AFTER you get the endorsement which would be a problem.. have you guys ever heard of this?

[/ QUOTE ] If the DE does this, he's completely out of line.
 
Re: question for you CFI\'s

Ditto on what Midlifeflyer says.
What examiner are you using up there. I know some of them are kinda shaddy and some are excellent.
What does your letter say from the FSDO say on what can be logged toward your tickets on the FTD?
 
Re: question for you CFI\'s

thanks for the replies guys - I plan on calling other DE's for this. After the CFI told me about some students that had problems with this (especially the complex 10 hour part) I was like "Whaaaaaaat?"

midlifeflyer - (This is for my single engine commercial certificate) I haven't logged any of my sim time under the "total flight time" column for the very reason of going to an interview and getting in trouble of having it in there as total time so you bring up a good point. BIG thanks for the reg reference I want to make sure I cover my bases before taking the checkride because according to this cfi one of her students checkride was put on hold because of this.

Jayare- i'm going to talk to the college about this on monday and ask around but I haven't decided on a specific examiner. I don't want to get in trouble by saying who are shady or not.. but I have also heard of some .. yeah shady stuff with some of them so I'm trying to get info on all of them.

one last thing.. probably should ask my cfi about this but how is it possible to log PIC time in a complex aircraft then if you don't have your edorsement? Because the CFI is giving dual instruction?

thanks again guys
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Re: question for you CFI\'s

[ QUOTE ]
one last thing.. probably should ask my cfi about this but how is it possible to log PIC time in a complex aircraft then if you don't have your edorsement? Because the CFI is giving dual instruction?


[/ QUOTE ]No. Because you are covered by my Rule No. 1 of logging:

==============================
Rule 1. If you are a recreational, private or commercial pilot, you may log PIC any time you are the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft you are rated for. [61.51(e)(3)]

"Rated" means the category and class (and type, if a type rating is necessary for the aircraft) that is listed on the back of your pilot certificate. Nothing else matters. Not instrument ratings. Not endorsements for high performance, complex, or tailwheel aircraft. Not medical currency. Not flight reviews. Not night currency. Nothing. There are no known exceptions.
==============================

In other words, your pilot certificate says "Airplane Single Engine Land" on the back. So any time you are the sole manipulator of the controls of a single-engine land airplane that does not require a type rating, you may write the numbers in the PIC column of your logbook.
 
Re: question for you CFI\'s

61.129(3)(ii) requires 10 hours training in a complex not 10hours PIC
Mathew, who are you thinking about taking your ride with? FSDO? I am down in Provo and I know there are a fewDPEs around here that are sticklers on logbooks and some not as much , but I don't know of any that have a problem with using the sim time, Goog luck on your ride.
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Re: question for you CFI\'s

[ QUOTE ]
I know there are a fewDPEs around here that are sticklers on logbooks and some not as much
[ QUOTE ]

One of them doesn't happen to fall asleep during the checkride does he?
 
Re: question for you CFI\'s

Thanks midlife you're a saver ~ you must read those regs in and out. I need to get up to date on these regs.. I can't wait until I get to the point of trying to figure out how to file SIC/PIC multitime ect ect.. i'm sure it's much worse than this.

thanks newty - i'm not sure yeah i'm trying to find out from everyone who the best person to go with is but thanks I hope I pass.
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jayare - lol.. i've heard of this person you're talking about - some have told me to take the ride with him but I haven't personally met this examiner yet (the stories i've heard are pretty funny, sleeping during a checkride.. lol
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).

Matthew
 
Re: question for you CFI\'s

==============================
Rule 1. If you are a recreational, private or commercial pilot, you may log PIC any time you are the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft you are rated for. [61.51(e)(3)]

"Rated" means the category and class (and type, if a type rating is necessary for the aircraft) that is listed on the back of your pilot certificate. Nothing else matters. Not instrument ratings. Not endorsements for high performance, complex, or tailwheel aircraft. Not medical currency. Not flight reviews. Not night currency. Nothing. There are no known exceptions.
==============================

I hate to bring this up since it has been 3 weeks since this post and it has taken me this long to find the Known exceptions to Rule #1 of logging.

61.31(e)
Additional training required for operating complex airplanes (1) except as blah blah no person may act as PILOT IN COMMAND of a complex airplane(Flaps, gear, prop)... unless that person has(i) received and logged ground and flight training
(ii) received a one time endorsement in the pilots logbook from an authorized instructor

the exception is if you flew a complex before August 4 1997.
Unless Rule 1 allows you to Log PIC when you cannot act as PIC then I believe there are some known exception.
(f) high performance
(g) pressurized
(h) type specific
(i)Tailwheel
(j) glider
If I am reading this wrong please let me know
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Re: question for you CFI\'s

Midlife Flyer's web site does a good job of explaining the difference between "Acting PIC" and "Logging PIC". I recommend you take a spin through his FAQ's for an easy overview: Frequently asked questions about logging PIC

Allow me to cut-and-paste the first paragraph:
[ QUOTE ]
When may I log PIC time?

The "golden key" to understanding the rules of logging PIC is to always keep in mind that the FAA treats "acting as pilot in command" and "logging pilot in command time" under FAR 61.51 as =completely= different concepts. It's the difference between (1) having final authority and responsibility for the operation and safety of a flight (commonly referred to as "acting as PIC") and (2) writing numbers in columns on a piece of paper while sitting at a desk with a beer in your hand. They =never= mean the same thing and they have completely different rules. A pilot can be responsible for a flight and =not= be permitted to write those numbers down. A pilot can be technically nothing but a passenger in the FAA's eyes and be permitted to write time in that PIC column. In some circumstances, two pilots may sit at that desk and write numbers in their logbooks, even though, quite obviously, only one can bear the ultimate responsibility for a flight.

[/ QUOTE ]
 
Re: question for you CFI\'s

So I called the FSDO and you are right there is a difference between ACTING and Logging. I had no clue so thanks for setting me straight on this. Then the FSDO proceeded to confuse the hell out of me by saying that you may log PIC complex without an endoresment only when you are SOLO. If you are with an enstructor they said you are not the sole manipulator of the controls. How can you go solo in a complex without an endorsment. Would that not be ACTING as PIC which 61.31 (e) says you need an endorsement for. Flying is the easy part of being a pilot.
banghead.gif
 
Re: question for you CFI\'s

[ QUOTE ]
Then the FSDO proceeded to confuse the hell out of me by saying that you may log PIC complex without an endoresment only when you are SOLO. If you are with an enstructor they said you are not the sole manipulator of the controls. How can you go solo in a complex without an endorsment. Would that not be ACTING as PIC which 61.31 (e) says you need an endorsement for. Flying is the easy part of being a pilot.
banghead.gif


[/ QUOTE ]You're not confused. The FSDO guy you spoke to is.
 
Re: question for you CFI\'s

[ QUOTE ]
How can you go solo in a complex without an endorsment.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're a student pilot, learning in a complex aircraft, you don't need the endorsement to solo.
 
Re: question for you CFI\'s

[ QUOTE ]
If you're a student pilot, learning in a complex aircraft, you don't need the endorsement to solo.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, but I don't think it would be a wise move on the CFI's part by letting a non-complex endorsed student pilot solo.
 
Re: question for you CFI\'s

When I solo a student pilot in the Champ, I execute the required solo endorsements and a tailwheel endorsement, even though it is redundent. During tailwheel transition training I ride the controls 80% of the time, even if I'm only making little or no control input.

The Atlanta FSDO has the same opinion as to logging PIC in a complex or tailwheel without the endorsement - no endorsement = no log.
 
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