Question for the experienced mil aviators out there

///AMG

///AMG

Well-Known Member
So a friend of mine in my class is having a pretty hard time, in terms of getting through this program. They have struggled pretty much since the first time they strapped on a jet, and of course grades have reflected this. Knowing this friend, I am pretty certain that it is simply a confidence issue.......kind of just getting into the jet and letting the stress overwhelm them on a fairly regular basis. We hit the backside of the big grey boat in a couple weeks, and very certainly, this is my friend's last chance at not being attrited completely from Naval aviation. I feel like pretty much everyone else in my class has given up on this person, and so I think it will probably boil down to me, needing to talk them up. I know we are all type A personalities and it is hard to ask for help because of this, but I know their confidence is at an all time low right now and beyond them just getting the qual, it would also be nice to see them not become ramp roast. I know the LSO's are there to prevent this, but I know my friend and know that they need an extra vote of confidence on this one. Have any of you known a similar individual, and do you have any advice on what to say to them to try and help?
 
Unfortunately there's only so much you....anyone....can do. When it comes down to it, the person has to perform on their own and find a way to do it, or they simply don't make it. They have to find it within themselves (if its a confidence thing), or with their hands (if its a flying skills thing), or by hitting the books (if its a General Knowledge thing).....there's not much more that can be done than has maybe already been done?

In this business, it's tough seeing someone struggle, especially a friend. But if his last chance is at the boat, you know as well as I that the margin for error there is small. No one wants your friend to end up sometime like the T-2 guy aboard the Lexington in 1989, due to something that was identified early. I know it sucks and I'm not saying to not try and help your friend, but he ultimately HAS to find it within himself and bring himself across the finish line. No one else can. And definitely not in this business.

There's very little margin for error in the flying we do, and not always someone to lean on. That's why we have tough entry standards and vetting processes. We're not some regional airline that people can just get into because meet some hours mins.



Unfortunately, there are some people not suited for the wings. As Lou Gossett Jr said as the DI in An Officer and a Gentleman:

"I will use every means, fair and unfair, to try and trip you up"

and when Richard Gere's buddy got DORd following failing the altitude chamber:

"It doesn't matter what he's been going through; that's what bartenders are for. What DOES matter is that he freaked out for SOME reason at twenty-five thousand feet, and that can't happen. Period. "
 
The totally lazy and/or incompentent are easy to send packing. It's the guys who put forth their best effort, study hard, have great personlities, and are ALMOST good enough who will kill themselves in an airplane.

You'll feel like a total ass, but you may be saving his life.

My one and only mishap as a CFI was the result of soloing a marginal student. I knew from the first few flights that he wasn't cut out to be a pilot. But, he tried really hard, really studied, yet he was always behind the airplane and had no confidence. Fortunately he only hurt an airplane, not himself or somebody else.

That's a mistake I'll never make again.
 
Thanks for the advice gents. You all speak the truth, it just sucks when it is a friend of yours.....

I know at one point kind of early on I was struggling with a particular block of training, and I went to go chat with my flight advisor (an IP). She gave me probably the best advice anyone has given me in terms of flying.......forget the past, you just need to go up there and make it happen. Those words kind of stuck with me during those next few flights and still do to this day; there just is no excuse for not doing everything you can to get the job done. After that talk, I did awesome on the rest of those flights and I think what it really came down to was getting an attitude adjustment. I'm hoping that I can pass along a similar sentiment
 
///AMG said:
Thanks for the advice gents. You all speak the truth, it just sucks when it is a friend of yours.....

I know at one point kind of early on I was struggling with a particular block of training, and I went to go chat with my flight advisor (an IP). She gave me probably the best advice anyone has given me in terms of flying.......forget the past, you just need to go up there and make it happen. Those words kind of stuck with me during those next few flights and still do to this day; there just is no excuse for not doing everything you can to get the job done. After that talk, I did awesome on the rest of those flights and I think what it really came down to was getting an attitude adjustment. I'm hoping that I can pass along a similar sentiment
Click to expand...

I was an instructor pilot in the Navy for two years. I prided myself in not giving downs, but I had to twice.

The first was a ready-room down - the student just didn't know his procedures - not that he was a little hesitant, he truly didn't have them memorized! That was a no-brainer - you can't go flying if you you don't know what you're supposed to do!

The second was a student who had already failed a FAM check-ride and they wanted me to check him again. He seemed prepared in the brief but he just couldn't connect his memorized procedures with the stick-and-rudder skills coupled with talking on the radio that it took to successfully negotiate a FAM check. I took over the radio to just allow him to fly and he still couldn't put it all together to fly a standard pattern entry to a touch-and go field and land the aircraft. I gave him several chances but he just couldn't get it together. So, I took him back to home field and gave him a flight-down.

Both students ended up washing out, and I don't feel bad about either instance.

Not everyone can do what we do. It's not a benevolent society; especially not in the military world. It just might be that your friend shouldn't be a Naval Aviator.

He is far enough along in the program to know what is expected of him. If he can't deliver then he will not proceed. That is as it should be.

It's OK to feel bad for him, as he is your friend, but imagine how you would feel if he skated through and ended up in your fleet squadron. If he is having problems now in a relatively simple training aircraft then that will just be compounded with a high-performance fleet aircraft.

Good luck!


Kevin
 
MikeD said:
Unfortunately there's only so much you....anyone....can do. When it comes down to it, the person has to perform on their own and find a way to do it, or they simply don't make it. They have to find it within themselves (if its a confidence thing), or with their hands (if its a flying skills thing), or by hitting the books (if its a General Knowledge thing).....there's not much more that can be done than has maybe already been done?

In this business, it's tough seeing someone struggle, especially a friend. But if his last chance is at the boat, you know as well as I that the margin for error there is small. No one wants your friend to end up sometime like the T-2 guy aboard the Lexington in 1989, due to something that was identified early. I know it sucks and I'm not saying to not try and help your friend, but he ultimately HAS to find it within himself and bring himself across the finish line. No one else can. And definitely not in this business.

There's very little margin for error in the flying we do, and not always someone to lean on. That's why we have tough entry standards and vetting processes. We're not some regional airline that people can just get into because meet some hours mins.



Unfortunately, there are some people not suited for the wings. As Lou Gossett Jr said as the DI in An Officer and a Gentleman:

"I will use every means, fair and unfair, to try and trip you up"

and when Richard Gere's buddy got DORd following failing the altitude chamber:

"It doesn't matter what he's been going through; that's what bartenders are for. What DOES matter is that he freaked out for SOME reason at twenty-five thousand feet, and that can't happen. Period. "
Click to expand...

Very good advice IMO. Sometimes it just isn't meant to be. That's not a bad thing though to the person it happens to, it is. It might not only save his life but others as well. I will say that one thing I did as a flight student was write F&*% It on the knuckles of my flight gloves. When I messed up, I would make two fists, turn em towards me and read it. there are times when you just have to say it and move on. In the end, only he can inspire and help himself. I've had a few good friends not make it through and I certainly felt bad for them but it is what it is. As an IP in primary, I always felt bad when I had to give an Unsat but often it was for the studs own good, even though they did not think so at the time I'm sure. I went through on the old grading system and my only down in flight school came during FCLP's and it was a required failure as it made me push harder to complete the program. Confidene lost but condfidence gained as well.
 
Little update:

We won't go to the boat until the first week of Feb, BUT, said friend has been doing pretty damn well in pre-CQ bouncing. I think maybe they finally got a handle on whatever was raining on their parade previously. I'm pretty happy to see it. That said, MY ball flying could use some improvement. Was NESA on half my passes today, clara high on one start, and just fighting lineup like a mofo on another. So I guess we all have good days and bad ones ;)
 
///AMG said:
Little update:

We won't go to the boat until the first week of Feb, BUT, said friend has been doing pretty damn well in pre-CQ bouncing. I think maybe they finally got a handle on whatever was raining on their parade previously. I'm pretty happy to see it. That said, MY ball flying could use some improvement. Was NESA on half my passes today, clara high on one start, and just fighting lineup like a mofo on another. So I guess we all have good days and bad ones ;)
Click to expand...

We'll see what happens.

But hey, if either of you don't get it, there's always P-3s.

;)
 
MikeD said:
We'll see what happens.

But hey, if either of you don't get it, there's always P-3s.

;)
Click to expand...

Hah, thanks for the vote of confidence :p Actually this friend is already headed to E-2/C-2/prop land so I guess that is kind of like P-3 :D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top