question about instrument x-c
- Thread starter Bluehen
- Start date
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
I would say no. Are you both going to log the flight as your IFR X-C's?
You only need 15 hours with a CFII, including 3 hours in preperation for the checkride. If I were the CFII, though, and a guy came to me using loopholes in the regs like this one, I'd be DAMN sure he was ready for the ride before I signed him off. Not knocking the loophole, loopholes are a wonderful thing. But real IFR flying is very serious stuff and an easy way to get killed if you aren't careful.
You only need 15 hours with a CFII, including 3 hours in preperation for the checkride. If I were the CFII, though, and a guy came to me using loopholes in the regs like this one, I'd be DAMN sure he was ready for the ride before I signed him off. Not knocking the loophole, loopholes are a wonderful thing. But real IFR flying is very serious stuff and an easy way to get killed if you aren't careful.
Jake_D
New Member
Yeah, that's a good question but a tough one to answer. The regs only say that you need to log at least 15 hours of training with an appropriatley rated instructor, however, it is fuzzy about the cross country. It only states that you need to complete at least one cross country under IFR at 250nm. The hard part is that it says cross country "training". So does that mean with an instructor? Hard to say. When I did my instrument my instructor said all he needed with me was at least 20 hours of training and then for me to do the rest and cross country flight with a safety pilot. Although that is not what I did.
My advice would be to contact the local FSDO office and ask just to be on the safe side. I would initially say yes. Just remember that you have to do this under IFR rules so the safety pilot must be instrument rated whether it is to be conducted under actual conditions of not (unlike simulating approaches and what not). If you plan on going actual and have not gotten any yet, make sure you go with your instructor as chances are they may have more experience in that area.
My advice would be to contact the local FSDO office and ask just to be on the safe side. I would initially say yes. Just remember that you have to do this under IFR rules so the safety pilot must be instrument rated whether it is to be conducted under actual conditions of not (unlike simulating approaches and what not). If you plan on going actual and have not gotten any yet, make sure you go with your instructor as chances are they may have more experience in that area.
Most of the FSDO's dont know jack (riverside)
I think the XC has to be under a IFR flight plan so the only way it could work is if a CFII was on the plane, But Im not sure how the regs are with say........ Pilot A and Pilot B
Pilot A is a IFR student
Pilot B is a IFR Rated person
So pilot B files the flight plan and pilot A is under the hood and pilot B is safety pilot.
But I have no idea if you could do that
One more thing is, Lets say you went in the clouds, how would you log that? I would just take a CFII and get that .2 IMC or what ever you get just because that stuff adds up quick
I think the XC has to be under a IFR flight plan so the only way it could work is if a CFII was on the plane, But Im not sure how the regs are with say........ Pilot A and Pilot B
Pilot A is a IFR student
Pilot B is a IFR Rated person
So pilot B files the flight plan and pilot A is under the hood and pilot B is safety pilot.
But I have no idea if you could do that
One more thing is, Lets say you went in the clouds, how would you log that? I would just take a CFII and get that .2 IMC or what ever you get just because that stuff adds up quick
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
I would like to change my answer
QUESTION: Does the instrument training cross country flight for the Instrument-Airplane rating have to be performed with a CFII-Airplane flight instructor?
ANSWER: Ref. § 61.65(d)(2)(iii)(A) and § 61.1(b)(10); Yes, the “. . . instrument training on cross country flight procedures . . . . A distance of at least 250 nautical miles along airways or ATC-directed routing . . . .” must be performed with an authorized instructor with the CFII-Airplane rating. Per § 61.1(b)(10), “Instrument training means that time in which instrument training is received from an authorized instructor under actual or simulated instrument conditions.” [Emphasis added: “. . . from an authorized instructor . . . .”]. And per § 61.65(d)(2)(iii), it states “. . . . instrument training . . . .” Therefore, the instrument training cross country flight for the Instrument-Airplane rating must be received from an authorized instructor with the CFII-Airplane rating.
The above is from the FAQ's for FAR part 61.65, found at www.faa.gov
Sorry for any confusion.
QUESTION: Does the instrument training cross country flight for the Instrument-Airplane rating have to be performed with a CFII-Airplane flight instructor?
ANSWER: Ref. § 61.65(d)(2)(iii)(A) and § 61.1(b)(10); Yes, the “. . . instrument training on cross country flight procedures . . . . A distance of at least 250 nautical miles along airways or ATC-directed routing . . . .” must be performed with an authorized instructor with the CFII-Airplane rating. Per § 61.1(b)(10), “Instrument training means that time in which instrument training is received from an authorized instructor under actual or simulated instrument conditions.” [Emphasis added: “. . . from an authorized instructor . . . .”]. And per § 61.65(d)(2)(iii), it states “. . . . instrument training . . . .” Therefore, the instrument training cross country flight for the Instrument-Airplane rating must be received from an authorized instructor with the CFII-Airplane rating.
The above is from the FAQ's for FAR part 61.65, found at www.faa.gov
Sorry for any confusion.
Jake_D
New Member
Re: I would like to change my answer
Again those are good points to look at. The one thing that makes it confusing is how the cross country flight is noted. Look under all other certificates (ie. private, commercial), and you will see that cross country training is placed right below and included with the required minimum training required for that certificate. But with the instrument rating they are listing this task seperatley; away from the required training by an instructor. It is really a tough question.
And true that sad part is that many times you can call the FSDO and get a different answer on seperate occasions. I would still call them, however, and get the name of the inspector you talk to, date and time so you have it on record. If possible ask them to put it in writting. If they know they are right they won't have a problem with that.
Again those are good points to look at. The one thing that makes it confusing is how the cross country flight is noted. Look under all other certificates (ie. private, commercial), and you will see that cross country training is placed right below and included with the required minimum training required for that certificate. But with the instrument rating they are listing this task seperatley; away from the required training by an instructor. It is really a tough question.
And true that sad part is that many times you can call the FSDO and get a different answer on seperate occasions. I would still call them, however, and get the name of the inspector you talk to, date and time so you have it on record. If possible ask them to put it in writting. If they know they are right they won't have a problem with that.