Question about complex time

chizg

Well-Known Member
Hello ya'll,

I am currently working on my commercial and have a question about the complex time requirements. Someone recently told me that float time in a Beaver counts as a complex time because of the retractable landing gear (being the water rudders). I did a shallow search online but haven't found too much on the topic so I figured I would ask here on JC. So does the Beaver on floats count toward the complex time needed for the CSEL? Any input is much appreciated!
 

Douglas

Old School KSUX
3)Complex airplane means an airplane that has a retractable landing gear, flaps, and a controllable pitch propeller, including airplanes equipped with an engine control system consisting of a digital computer and associated accessories for controlling the engine and propeller, such as a full authority digital engine control; or, in the case of a seaplane, flaps and a controllable pitch propeller, including seaplanes equipped with an engine control system consisting of a digital computer and associated accessories for controlling the engine and propeller, such as a full authority digital engine control.
Under part 61. Definitions 61.1.3
Your instructor is correct but that reasoning is incorrect. It has nothing to do with the retract water rudders. :) hope this helped.
 

chizg

Well-Known Member
Under part 61. Definitions 61.1.3
Your instructor is correct but that reasoning is incorrect. It has nothing to do with the retract water rudders. :) hope this helped.
Douglas, thank you for the reply and info!
 

DE727UPS

Well-Known Member
Since you pull the lever to retract the water rudders before you takeoff is a seaplane, I would think it would be negative training to equate that technique to a complex landplane.
 

rframe

pǝʇɹǝʌuı
Since you pull the lever to retract the water rudders before you takeoff is a seaplane, I would think it would be negative training to equate that technique to a complex landplane.
They flipped one in Hayden Lake earlier this summer for exactly that reason... ooops.
 

DE727UPS

Well-Known Member
They flipped one in Hayden Lake earlier this summer for exactly that reason... ooops.
That was probably an amphib landing in water with the gear down. You are supposed to have the water rudders retracted in straight floats when you land but, well, it's not the end of the world if you don't. Don't ask me how I know....
 

rframe

pǝʇɹǝʌuı
That was probably an amphib landing in water with the gear down. You are supposed to have the water rudders retracted in straight floats when you land but, well, it's not the end of the world if you don't. Don't ask me how I know....
Ah yes, you're right. I wasn't reading very carefully.
 

Cessna414JJB

Unknown Member
Hello ya'll,

I am currently working on my commercial and have a question about the complex time requirements. Someone recently told me that float time in a Beaver counts as a complex time because of the retractable landing gear (being the water rudders). I did a shallow search online but haven't found too much on the topic so I figured I would ask here on JC. So does the Beaver on floats count toward the complex time needed for the CSEL? Any input is much appreciated!
The Beav counts as a complex and time in it can be counted towards ratings/ certificates requiring such.
This has nothing to do with the landing gear (if amphibious) or any appliance that can be forgotten and left dangling (or gone & missing) from the floats. The reason it is complex is simply because it has flaps and an adjustable pitch propeller.This, by the FAA's definition makes a seaplane complex.

You can probably catch some silly looks from the collective super- instructor community for this, but its worth it:

Treat any float or sea or hull plane as if it had a retractable gear. Yes. Even on straight floats, your GUMP check should include using every tool available (including visual checks even if there is no gear to see) to assure your landing gears position is proper for whichever surface you land on. Good video on this subject may be found here.
 
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