Qs about multi

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You have to be the best pilot I have ever seen, or even heard of for that matter...
How did you maintain directional control on the ground full t/o power on one engine and the other one at iddle?? how wide was the runway?? 5000 feet???
I am sorry, but this is the most ridiculous statement I have ever heard...
Give me the name of the DE, what FSDO he reports to, someone needs to do something about this before he kills an innocent student.


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Keep it on the ground past Vmc and there should be no problem. So long as FE and DA are not above SEC and the weight is low the airplane will/should climb. Directional control is related to rudder effectiveness while airborne - while the nose wheel is in contact with the pavement it should be possible (maybe not easy) to keep it tracking down the centerline.

Now, would I go out and actually do this? Nope. But on "paper" it is possible.
 
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I use, and will teach, blueline is the decision for you. At blueline the gear comes up. Before blueline if an engine fails you land straight ahead regardless of runway available - you can use the standard "20 degrees off course" trick like singles do if there's a building, cliff, etc.

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That sounds good most of the time....but what if you're departing from a 14,000 ft runway? Wouldn't you wait a bit longer until retracting the gear and committing yourself to "circle back around" when you still have 10,000 feet of usable runway in front of you?

I don't know about the Aztec, but in a seneca I can't see any way you could do a single engine takeoff from brake release. During training, anytime you pulled an engine before VMC the plane would go veering off centerline like a madman. The Aztec must have the engines closer to centerline or a lot more effective rudder....
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You have to be the best pilot I have ever seen, or even heard of for that matter...
How did you maintain directional control on the ground full t/o power on one engine and the other one at iddle?? how wide was the runway?? 5000 feet???
I am sorry, but this is the most ridiculous statement I have ever heard...
Give me the name of the DE, what FSDO he reports to, someone needs to do something about this before he kills an innocent student.


[/ QUOTE ]

Keep it on the ground past Vmc and there should be no problem. So long as FE and DA are not above SEC and the weight is low the airplane will/should climb. Directional control is related to rudder effectiveness while airborne - while the nose wheel is in contact with the pavement it should be possible (maybe not easy) to keep it tracking down the centerline.

Now, would I go out and actually do this? Nope. But on "paper" it is possible.

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What he said. Except it wasn't hard at all to maintain directional control. Ease on the throttle and just hold rudder in. Looking back at the airport it was 6100x100ft - MWO in Middletown, OH. Also the left engine was producing some power as it was set at the "simulated feather" 12" and 2100rpm.
 
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The sounds good most of the time....but what if you're departing from a 14,000 ft runway? Wouldn't you wait a bit longer until retracting the gear and committing yourself to "circle back around" when you still have 10,000 feet of usable runway in front of you?

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The "blueline" decision isn't set in stone. It's a general guidline. Every airport/situation is different.

Which is why I said "the decision should be made before taking the runway."
cool.gif
 
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I've actually done a single engine takeoff from brake release to 3000’ (the other engine was "simulated feather" the whole time - ready to go if need be).

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Present-----------------Future
You =======>>> Smoking Hole

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That's nice.

There seem to be a lot of people on this board who are for 100% safety all the time. WIth 100% safety, you'll never learn. Why do stalls when you can be straight and level? Stalls are far more dangerous. Why do turn around a point near the ground instead of 12000 ft where you have more options? Why fly single engine/ single pilot IFR when it's far safer to do it in a two person turbine? Why fly IFR in the winter, there's a much greater chance of ice? Why fly near/ over mountains when you can fly over plains. Don't even think about aerobatics!

Doing a SE takeoff in a Multi engine plane isn't the safest thing to do. Can it be done safely? Yes. Did I learn from it? Yes. Do I think I should write up the DE before he kills an innocent student? No. That's rediculous, it was a learning experience in a controlled environment with two capable pilots in the aircraft, two working engines, and a lot of runway to work with.

What did that post accomplish except to try and piss me off?
 
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[

There seem to be a lot of people on this board who are for Doing a SE takeoff in a Multi engine plane isn't the safest thing to do. Can it be done safely? Yes. Did I learn from it? Yes. Do I think I should write up the DE before he kills an innocent student? No. That's rediculous, it was a learning experience in a controlled environment with two capable pilots in the aircraft, two working engines, and a lot of runway to work with.

What did that post accomplish except to try and piss me off?

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The DE should be written up and reported. He not only endangered you but he also broke a few FAA rules.
 
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The DE should be written up and reported. He not only endangered you but he also broke a few FAA rules.

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Such as?
 
No simulated failures beyond 50%Vmc, no engine failures can occur below 500ft AGL.
 
Do you happen to know what section of the FAR that is? I'm not saying you're wrong by any means, I'm just curious.
 
[ QUOTE ]

There seem to be a lot of people on this board who are for 100% safety all the time. WIth 100% safety, you'll never learn. Why do stalls when you can be straight and level? Stalls are far more dangerous. Why do turn around a point near the ground instead of 12000 ft where you have more options? Why fly single engine/ single pilot IFR when it's far safer to do it in a two person turbine? Why fly IFR in the winter, there's a much greater chance of ice? Why fly near/ over mountains when you can fly over plains. Don't even think about aerobatics!

Doing a SE takeoff in a Multi engine plane isn't the safest thing to do. Can it be done safely? Yes. Did I learn from it? Yes. Do I think I should write up the DE before he kills an innocent student? No. That's rediculous, it was a learning experience in a controlled environment with two capable pilots in the aircraft, two working engines, and a lot of runway to work with.

What did that post accomplish except to try and piss me off?

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There is a huge difference between flying single pilot ifr in the winter on a single engine, and doing what the DE showed you. I don't see what you learned from that experience, an engine that produces 12'' of MP with 2100 rpm during a t/o roll is not a failed engine, nor is it even simulated failed... plus easing off the good engine to help maintain directional control on the ground, show me where you find the data for a reduced power t/o for a light multi engine on the poh (which you have to refer to, if you have any concept of safety at all).
Now, the point of all this thread is, at least to me, about safety; I wouldn't want my student to show up on a lesson and tell me: "but why don't we continue a take-off after an engine failure, since the a/c can be controlled on the ground, we could let it accelerate to vyse and climb out", or some of that nature.
When you demonstrate a stall to a student, you want to give him a better understanding of aerodynamics, and show him what to do in that case (a/c have crashed before because of stalls in the traffic pattern). The situation you describe does not represent any real situation.
Plus, if you want to simulate a single engine t/o, zero thrust on the failed engine is more or less idle at low speed, and you do not flex on a light multi engine...
Do not take this personnaly, you were told to do something by a DE, can't blame you for doing it... But a DE, a representative of the FAA, should know that this particular maneuver is not required in the pts, nor is there a description of it in the poh, and therefore belongs to a category of people called test pilots.
 
[quoteDoing a SE takeoff in a Multi engine plane isn't the safest thing to do. Can it be done safely? Yes. Did I learn from it? Yes. Do I think I should write up the DE before he kills an innocent student? No. That's rediculous, it was a learning experience in a controlled environment with two capable pilots in the aircraft, two working engines, and a lot of runway to work with.

What did that post accomplish except to try and piss me off?

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If the post pissed you off its probably because somewhere down deep you realize that you were wrong to let the DE do this to you. Stop being defensive and listen to those of us with something to say about this. There are alot of people with varing degrees of experience (life and flight) and when someone with more experience challenges you, you should shut up and listen to their wisdom. Let me disect your above statement:

Can a single engine takeoff be done safely?
Absolutley NOT. Just because you were successful, it does not equate to safety. This has to be one of the most stupidest tricks I have ever heard of. It violate FAR 91:13. Don't believe me, ask a Fed. What about Vsse published for the airplane ... the safe speed at which an enginge can be intentionally made inoperative,

Did you learn from it?
Learning is defined as a change in behavior based on an experience. What behavior have you changed? Do you now do SE takeoffs? I hope the real learning you experience is from the beating you take for doing such a stupid thing. I hope you never do this again or allow anyone put you in such a compromising situation.

Should the DE be written up?
Yes, he is suppose to be evaluating your performance against the standard in the PTS, what is the Area of Operation and Task for SE takeoffs? Did your MEI prepare you for this maneuver? The DE is operating outside, way outside the standards and yes he will kill someone some day. To know to do right and not to do it is wrong. You have a responsability to let some one know what is going on.

You were operating in a controlled enviroment, with two cabable pilots on board.
What were the controll measures? Did the DE even brief you on what was going to happen and the proper (if any) recovery techniques to get out of trouble? TWO capable pilots? If this was on a check ride and I assume since it was with a DE, you were not qualified in the airplane ... so now you are down to one "capable" pilot and I use the term capable in reference to the DE very liberally.

Your last statement is the biggest problem I have ... lot of runway to work with.
Its NOT about the runway in front of you, When a multi engine airplane has a problem we discuss it in terms of DIRECTIONAL CONTROLL, your laterall limitations are more of a threat to your life than the extended runway ahead of you. IF you ever have a problem in a twin, you will NOT end up on the same heading you started out on.

You need to be more carefull out there. Please.
 
Agreed. Lets just hope your comments and wisdom result in a certain individual avoiding these kinds of dangers in the future C650. Fly safe, and smart everyone.
 
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