QRH, systems knowledge (from college thread)

[Check_Six]

Re: Don't need a degree eh?

Try going through an upgrade oral with little to know systems knowledge past saying "Well, I'd run the QRH." Let me know how far you get.....

We had a TR get stuck open the other night (one the ground after landing). Doesn't say anything about turning off the 14th stage bleeds in the QRH, but low and behold it worked. Where did I pull that one out of? Systems knowledge.

Well, to be honest, I'm not really that concerned with upgrade orals. It would be ignorant to show up for something like that without the appropriate systems knowledge that your company requires. But, how about real life?

You turned off the 14th stage bleeds, and LOW AND BEHOLD, it worked! Yay! What if it didn't work? What if you did that and a few other things and somehow metal was bent or people were hurt in the process? You'd be out of a job for not following company procedures. I'm not saying that a little critical reasoning is never called for, but be careful about how much creativity you throw into a solution because you think you're smarter than the system. You might be a hero when everything goes right, but the company will nail you to the wall if you got creative (even with good intentions) and the situation turned ugly.

Besides, $50,000 of damage to an engine by following the written company procedure...doesn't sound like you're the one who needs to be fired.

 

[derg]

Re: Don't need a degree eh?

Please don't take this the wrong way, but are you speaking from theoretical concepts or practical application?

It's easier having a technical discussion at least when we have a basic understanding of where one another is coming from.

 

[mikecweb]

What's a QRH

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Re: Don't need a degree eh?

You turned off the 14th stage bleeds, and LOW AND BEHOLD, it worked! Yay! What if it didn't work? What if you did that and a few other things and somehow metal was bent or people were hurt in the process?

If you understand CRJ systems, then you know that nothing bad can come from shutting off a 14th-stage bleed. I can think of several checklists that call for it in flight. It's even part of the deicing checklist on the ground. Not a big deal, nothing to worry about. I would probably just shut down the engine if I couldn't get the reverser to stow after a few tries instead of shutting off the bleed, but that's just me. Nothing wrong with using the bleed switch instead. You're a pilot, not a robot. Don't let the dimwits in the training department that haven't seen a real airplane for years convince you that there's never a time for a little bit of systems knowledge.

You'd be out of a job for not following company procedures.

I don't know about PSA, but there was no company procedure at PCL for such an event on the ground. Using EMER STOW is procedure for use in the air, and it's not advisable on the ground.

Besides, $50,000 of damage to an engine by following the written company procedure...doesn't sound like you're the one who needs to be fired.

Causing $50k worth of damage to an aircraft for no good reason is indefensible when you have systems knowledge that allows you to solve the problem without damaging anything. I've defended pilots in disciplinary hearings for doing lots of stupid things, but I'd be hard pressed to defend some idiot for hitting EMER STOW on the ground and destroying a reverser.

 

[BobDDuck]

Re: Don't need a degree eh?

Well, to be honest, I'm not really that concerned with upgrade orals. It would be ignorant to show up for something like that without the appropriate systems knowledge that your company requires. But, how about real life?

I think you've got it backwards.

Real life is where you need the systems knowledge. Knowing the checklists will get you through 99% of all training events.

 

[BobDDuck]

Re: Don't need a degree eh?

I don't know about PSA, but there was no company procedure at PCL for such an event on the ground. Using EMER STOW is procedure for use in the air, and it's not advisable on the ground.

This whole discussion actually (as far as PSA goes) is now something of a moot point. We redid our QRH about 6 months ago, and the new one actually does mention not using the procedure on the ground. The old one (which is no longer available) did in fact NOT say anything about it.

 

[triple7]

Coming out of EWR one night, as we raised the gear we heard a loud thud. Hmmmm....made us both look at each other puzzled. Within seconds the EICAS dinged with a "hydr 1 low quantity" advisory. Now granted this was just an advisory message, and the QRH said squat about it. We looked at our hydr page and quickly realized that system 1 was bone dry, and what we heard was a return line popping; spraying skydrol all over Elizabeth NJ. Now granted, we havn't had any type of failure to this point, so the QRH was essentially worthless in its guidance. We did however, by drawing on systems knowledge, be able to deduce what would happen when we tried to access any of the systems on the #1. By knowing we wouldnt have spoilers, outboard braking, tr's, and steering we were able to plan accordingly on the landing and tell ATC what to expect. As it was we rolled to the end with max braking(standing on the pedals) and no steering. Had we not planted it on the numbers of 22L we might have ended up in the F lot.

Just a story I felt like sharing.

 

[FlyChicaga]

Now granted this was just an advisory message, and the QRH said squat about it. We looked at our hydr page and quickly realized that system 1 was bone dry, and what we heard was a return line popping; spraying skydrol all over Elizabeth NJ. Now granted, we havn't had any type of failure to this point, so the QRH was essentially worthless in its guidance.

No offense, but we have a very detailed procedure for "Hydraulic System 1 Failure" in the QRH. That is exactly what that was, regardless of the EICAS messages presented.

 

[triple7]

No offense, but we have a very detailed procedure for "Hydraulic System 1 Failure" in the QRH. That is exactly what that was, regardless of the EICAS messages presented.

Nothing had failed though. You and I both know what was about to fail, but because we couldnt definitively say that yes, we had a hydr sys 1 fail we couldnt with 100% certainty say what would happen. Ultimately when we lowered the gear the #1 pump failed, then when the wheels touched down stuff starting lighting up on the eicas. We were just going on what we knew, and what we thought we knew. And that was under the direction of MX.