See, that's the way it works, folks. That's a great example.
I could have deleted the message, doled out a yellow card and it would have done zip.
But a calm, reasoned, unemotional response is what was called for.
QOL @ SKW, now
- Thread starter pilot602
- Start date
See, that's the way it works, folks. That's a great example.
I could have deleted the message, doled out a yellow card and it would have done zip.
But a calm, reasoned, unemotional response is what was called for.
Velocipede
New Member
So let me rephrase: Getting off IOE on your first airline job doesn't make you all-knowing about the industry. Its usually bad form to post threads about "How do I get to work from SLC to EWR" and one month later start lecturing people with 30 years in aviation and 18 years on a major airline how the business works.
So let's revisit Abe:
"Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt." - A. Lincoln
So let's revisit Abe:
"Its better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt." - A. Lincoln
However, some of the new entrants into the profession were given professional guidance from day one. I've been pumping that kid with union propaganda, fight the power, don't sell out for darned near six years which made his transition from starry-eyed wannabe to professional pilot, I hope, a little smoother.
meritflyer
Well-Known Member
I can really agree with Velo on a ton of stuff but man, I'd hate to be his FO. He'd be a CRM nightmare.
meritflyer
Well-Known Member
meritflyer
Well-Known Member
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
So let me rephrase.
If you don't think that the regionals are affecting your pay scale, you're dead wrong. We've got kids younger than me flying in the left seat of 90 seat RJ's for less than your first officers are flying MD-80's for, then you're sorely mistaken. And let me assure you good sir, we will steal your flying. We will take your routes, we will do a better job and I can assure you that the kids I work with have more piss and vinegar and a will to succeed that is stronger than yours is. You can either work with us or you can take a giant dump on us like most mainline pilots have. You think that we don't affect you? How much would you give to put the RJ back in the bottle? Personally, I'd give a lot but then again, I want a real career.
You don't work in a bubble. You never have, and you never will. We're not flying Metroliners and Beech 99's anymore (which I, unlike most of my coworkers, actually have a check out in), and the region we're flying in encompasses the entire country.
And, just for your information, I'm making the commute from hell right now because it meant I was going to be at an ALPA carrier. I live in Salt Lake and could drive to work and work at Skywest right now, but I'm not interested. I've done the non union job, didn't care for it, left and went to the best carrier that I was qualified for with the strongest MEC around. It wasn't an accident, I planned it that way. In fact I refuse to apply to Skywest, Colgan or JetBlue.
But you wouldn't know that, because all you've seen is a smart ass 25 year old picking out something you might not have thought about. So instead of saying, "Huh, 90 seat RJ's...for not a lot of money...maybe he's right, it is bad!" you've decided to try to protect your ego and launch personal attacks against me.
That's fine, do what you want. But where most guys bitch and complain, I've put my money where my mouth is and gone after flying for a union carrier at the cost of an extremely stable freight job that would provide turbine PIC time MUCH faster than where I'm at. It's added stress to the relationship between me and my fiance. It has quite honestly been a huge pain in the butt in a lot of ways, but you know what? I said I'd go to a union carrier, said I WOULD NOT support working at ANOTHER non union carrier and did it.
Continue to attack if you'd like, I'm pretty secure with the choices I've made in my career so far, which is probably a tiny bit longer than you imagine it has been. I'm not some spikey haired RJ driver.
meritflyer
Well-Known Member
Ophir
Well-Known Member
I continue to be very perplexed by the nature of this thread. I have sat down a few times and tried to write something that makes sense and each time had to stop myself due to my exasperated feeling of disbelief with what I was responding to.
Each of us has a certain credibility that is for certain. I have always been one to respect that. Personally, I am not a wet behind the ears guy who has not clue about life. I am not young and I am not naïve. I am a principled and honest person who believes in every person’s ability to use their head and to the right thing. This thread reeks of a disingenuous invective that contradicts the foundation of the argument and undermines those who cannot seem to see that there are more than one way to live a life and certainly more than one side to every story.
The fraternal element to voting ALPA in was one of the most compelling elements to the vote, for me. I believe in sticking together and I believe we will be better off if we do that. Ironically, it was most likely the newhires who were formerly union employees, who tipped this election against the foundation that once ostensibly “represented” them.
My belief that the fraternal element of a union is very important to the industry is undermined with the ideas that are proposed by Velo, PCT and condoned by Merit. If you guys were able to consider the breadth of this idea you wouldn’t use intimidation and exclusivity as tools to gather your flock. Think for a moment what it means to be in a union. It seems to me that you guys are at war with management and you need your troops. What if that is not so for everyone else, the silent majority? Wouldn’t it still be good to have them on your side without either railroading them into your linear thinking or repelling them with invective?
Personally, although I voted for ALPA I am really disappointed that I voted for the likes of people who represent themselves like you do. For awhile I thought we were all in this together.
Each of us has a certain credibility that is for certain. I have always been one to respect that. Personally, I am not a wet behind the ears guy who has not clue about life. I am not young and I am not naïve. I am a principled and honest person who believes in every person’s ability to use their head and to the right thing. This thread reeks of a disingenuous invective that contradicts the foundation of the argument and undermines those who cannot seem to see that there are more than one way to live a life and certainly more than one side to every story.
The fraternal element to voting ALPA in was one of the most compelling elements to the vote, for me. I believe in sticking together and I believe we will be better off if we do that. Ironically, it was most likely the newhires who were formerly union employees, who tipped this election against the foundation that once ostensibly “represented” them.
My belief that the fraternal element of a union is very important to the industry is undermined with the ideas that are proposed by Velo, PCT and condoned by Merit. If you guys were able to consider the breadth of this idea you wouldn’t use intimidation and exclusivity as tools to gather your flock. Think for a moment what it means to be in a union. It seems to me that you guys are at war with management and you need your troops. What if that is not so for everyone else, the silent majority? Wouldn’t it still be good to have them on your side without either railroading them into your linear thinking or repelling them with invective?
Personally, although I voted for ALPA I am really disappointed that I voted for the likes of people who represent themselves like you do. For awhile I thought we were all in this together.
Fins Up
Well-Known Member
What are you trying to imply here?
He's just saying he's not a lesbian.:buck:
Velocipede
New Member
Again, a rookie mistake...making judgments about someone's professional demeanor from Internet postings. FYI, I'm not only a CRM ace, I was a CRM instructor in the military.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
That's great.
But you continue to dodge everything we're saying to you simply dismissing us because we're "rookies."
It's cool, continue to do the same; your hubris and lack of awareness of the industry falling apart from under you won't affect you since you're going to retire soon. Now for the rest of us that have to deal with the mess we've been handed we realize very much that if you don't take care of the bottom then it'll sink you.
But you continue to dodge everything we're saying to you simply dismissing us because we're "rookies."
It's cool, continue to do the same; your hubris and lack of awareness of the industry falling apart from under you won't affect you since you're going to retire soon. Now for the rest of us that have to deal with the mess we've been handed we realize very much that if you don't take care of the bottom then it'll sink you.
mrivc211
Well-Known Member
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Ask NWA if RJs affect them. You'll get a resounding "Hell yeah." For a while, our guys couldn't get a JS, or if they did they got a lecture on how we "Stole their friend's job and sent them back to the right seat." Why? B/c regional airlines operate cheaper than majors. NWA's one of the worst about tossing an RJ on any route b/c it's cheaper than that airbus. It's gonna get worse, too, since management has said they'd like to INCREASE the amount of regional flying. Looks like they're going ahead with that plan with Compass and Mesaba flying the 76 seaters. In a few years, when the DC-9 driver wonders where that route went, he's not gonna have to look any further than the EMB-170 parked next to him flown by a regional crew, working for less money.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Dude, stop it, you're giving me flashbacks.
I once had an NWA Captain tell me that I was "no better than illegal Mexican workers stealing American jobs." Another one said "well, you're not as bad as those JetBlue scumbags, but you're still a piece of &^%$. Just take a seat in the back and don't bug me." Ahhh, the memories. 
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Dude, stop it, you're giving me flashbacks.
Man, am I glad I don't commute. Here's hoping more senior MEM CAs go to ATL so I don't have to.
Lee D
Well-Known Member
Extremly well thought response! I completely agree & I certainly could not have said it better. I also voted for it, though the level of railroading, as you call it, and fear tactics from both sides really bothered me. I'm not saying we should pick flowers, join hands and sing, yet there is a certain level of animosity and contention which exists/existed that I don't believe is needed nor does it help to acheive the results that were wanted. I don't believe that the "sky will be falling" at SkyWest anytime soon because this didn't pass. However, I am disappointed because I believe that there were short term and long term improvements that could have ultimately come to pass had it worked.