QOL @ SKW, now

kellwolf said:
The difference being that APA and SWAPA aren't basically student councils that roll over when management wants them to. Colgan has an in-house union now, too. Is it a "good for them" b/c they didn't cave, too? You can hardly compare the Skywest union to American's in-house union. One is so in bed with management you can't tell where one ends and the other begins, and the other has drawn a line in the sand daring management to cross it.

The down side is I bet you'll be hard pressed to find a Skywest guy that will say "Yeah, I voted 'no.'" If they're in-house union was strong, there'd be plenty of guys saying "Hell yeah I voted 'no.'" It wasn't a vote for the in-house union, it was a vote against paying 2% in dues for a job people will hopefully not be at more than a few years.
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That's news to me! The CPG isn't recognized by management and it's certainly not a legal form of representation that will provide us a 'contract' like a true in-house union does. Furthermore, I don't support it either.....IMO, all it's going to do is drain support for the next ALPA vote.

As I've said before, I have supported ALPA since we began the drive and I continue to educate those I fly with about the merits of representation. We've got to continue the education of our pilot group to have the next election produce a majority of 'yes' voters.
 
Good grief, deja vu.

Ok folks, the control of the jumpseat depends on the company you fly for.

MOST airlines, the jumpseat is the domain of the captain. He has control over who can and who cannot ride it (in accordance with who the FOM says can ride it), but if he denies it and someone squawks, he might be answerable to the jumpseat coordinator and the chief pilot. I've got a story about this I'll tell in a second.

At SOME airlines, the jumpseat is purely the companies and the captain may not have complete control over it. I think UPS is kind of like this, but I don't work there and I can't say much beyond, "Well, I heard on the innerweb dat it works like dis."

At my airline, it's the captain's jumpseat, however that does NOT mean that if you deny a jumpseat that you won't get questioned. My story, and this is third hand so take it with a grain of net.salt.

I know a guy who his captain denied a jumpseat to another pilot because he didn't want a "racial expletive" on his jumpseat. He did deny it, but then word got back to the chief pilot about this and he had to do the high-stakes winner-take-all 'carpet dance'.

You know, the type when if you don't perform, they take your books, your ID and corporate security shows up to escort you out the door? :)

I can't say I'm a fan of using the jumpseat for political reasons. I've seen it happen before and I can't say that I thought it helped with the situation and actually exacerbated the problem.

I do, however, think that it makes a great "dunce chair". Have the gentleman sit down and use the opportunity to educate him on your chosen subject. You've got a captive audience at that point and low and behold, you control the stage.

That's my personal opinion. I feel that there are more points to be scored by preaching to someone for two hours rather than high-fiving one another after telling the gate agent that the jumpseat's on MEL.

I know it's the macho thing to say, "I'd run out there and get in the guy's face, kick him in the nads and tell him to beat it" but I know that you know, that you know that I know that not going to happen.

Educate, folks, educate. If they're not receptive or give you some grief over that, jot his name down and tell your friends.
 
I got a jumpseat on a full Delta flight despite the fact that an Airtran jumpseater showed up before me and requested it. The captain said that because I was ALPA and he wasn't AND because in the 4 plus years of having the second jumpseater fee the Airtran pilot group hasn't done anything about it, there was no way the guy was getting a ride.

It's the captain's seat.
 
BobDDuck said:
I got a jumpseat on a full Delta flight despite the fact that an Airtran jumpseater showed up before me and requested it. The captain said that because I was ALPA and he wasn't AND because in the 4 plus years of having the second jumpseater fee the Airtran pilot group hasn't done anything about it, there was no way the guy was getting a ride.

It's the captain's seat.
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Absolutely correct, Bob. That's exactly what I'd do as well. ALPA first, other unions next, non-union last. Personally, I don't discriminate against regional pilots based on Union affilitation, mostly because they're young guys who are getting screwed enough just being regional pilots.

However, I can see the value in not allowing non-union pilots the benefit of Union negotiatied privileges. The problem is that its a two-edged sword. There may be a lot of pilots at your airline who rely on a Skywest jumpseat to get home. So, you don't want to screw your buddy to make a political point.

Now, when you're talking someone who directly impacts YOUR contract, then its a horse of a different color. Union pilots should shun the jetBlue, Virgin, Skybus, Allegiant scum of the world instead of going to them hat in hand looking for a jumpseat ride.

Besides, you've got to analyze why Skywest pilots voted like they did. They're already the top of the heap as far as pay goes for regional guys. Companies get the Unions they deserve and, appparently, Skywest guys don't feel the need for Union support or protection.
 
BobDDuck said:
I got a jumpseat on a full Delta flight despite the fact that an Airtran jumpseater showed up before me and requested it. The captain said that because I was ALPA and he wasn't AND because in the 4 plus years of having the second jumpseater fee the Airtran pilot group hasn't done anything about it, there was no way the guy was getting a ride.
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Despite being an AirTran pilot, I actually support this 100%. Maybe if more Captains started giving priority to ALPA pilots, then more of our guys would wake up and realize that it's time to join the national union rather than trying to do things on our own. And if you get our pilots on the jumpseat, educate them about the importance of a national union.

It's the captain's seat.
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Amen.
 
Speaking of Da Trany, have you guys managed to get rid of that extra jumpseater fee in any of the TAs you've gotten?
 
BobDDuck said:
Speaking of Da Trany, have you guys managed to get rid of that extra jumpseater fee in any of the TAs you've gotten?
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Yep. Both of the failed TAs had it in there. Too bad the rest of the TA sucked. :) I'm sure that the next TA will also have it in there, so whenever we do finally get a contract, it should put an end to the fee. Until then, if you have any problems, try to talk with the Captain. Lots of the Captains will go talk to the gate agent and get them to "overlook" the fee.
 
PCL would say:

"..sorry, but I don't allow anti-union pilots to get free rides on my jumpseat. Have a nice day."

This attitude, while it gives you a great personal sense of satisfaction, I'm sure, could easily cause the next 10 guys from YOUR company who try to ride with the guy YOU denied to not get to work. That's something I'd personally think about before using the jumpseat as a way to "get even".

Velo said:

"The problem is that its a two-edged sword. There may be a lot of pilots at your airline who rely on a Skywest jumpseat to get home. So, you don't want to screw your buddy to make a political point" (Wow, Velo just said something I agree with), then....

"Now, when you're talking someone who directly impacts YOUR contract, then its a horse of a different color. Union pilots should shun the jetBlue, Virgin, Skybus, Allegiant scum of the world..."

Oh the hipocrisy.... You're saying your two edged sword applies to folks outside your realm but not those inside it? Not a very consistent stance to take if you are trying to convince JC readers, from a variety of backgrounds, that your argument has merit.

"I think UPS is kind of like this"

UPS and Fedex are kind of unique as they need to move crews within their system. We got in our last contract the limitation that domestic lines needed to be built with commercial tickets to position and deposition crews (Fedex has had this for a while). What we "gave up" was the ability for the company to position reserve crews on the jumpseat as needed to cover last minute contingencies. In other words, if you have a jumpseater being positioned on company business, you can't bump him. Well, you could, but you'd have to come up with a safety of flight issue, and that's gonna be a pretty big stretch. And I imagine you'd get to do a carpet dance, too. So, yeah, I don't believe UPS and Fedex Capts have total control of the jumpseat in the traditional sense.

Now, you can still say the Capt is the ultimate authority, which is true, but there are limitations. This is a contentious at Brown, and there is more to the story, but I think I'll stop there...
 
DE727UPS said:
PCL would say:

"..sorry, but I don't allow anti-union pilots to get free rides on my jumpseat. Have a nice day."

This attitude, while it gives you a great personal sense of satisfaction, I'm sure, could easily cause the next 10 guys from YOUR company who try to ride with the guy YOU denied to not get to work. That's something I'd personally think about before using the jumpseat as a way to "get even".
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If those pilots are going to request jumpseats from non-union pilots, then I don't really sympathize with them. Sorry.
 
DE727UPS said:
Oh the hipocrisy.... You're saying your two edged sword applies to folks outside your realm but not those inside it? Not a very consistent stance to take if you are trying to convince JC readers, from a variety of backgrounds, that your argument has merit.
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Once again, Mr. Cargo "enlightens" us with his "knowledge" of the passenger industry. But, since he has no idea about the passenger business, its really all irrelevant.

Now, if you want to know about flying boxes, call DE. Until then, DE shouldn't cast stones, especially when he's clueless about the topic.
 
I think he was talking about "realm" as in regionals and majors. Not people and boxes. I don't see why there should be a difference in Cargo 757 rates and Passenger 757 rates. I DO see where there would be a difference in Passenger 757 rates and Passenger RJ rates.

Maybe I am missing something though.
 
I guess I phrased my Colgan thing a bit wrong. If the CPG isn't an in-house union, then I doubt you can call the Skywest group an in-house union either. Recognized by management and recognized by the NMB are two different things.
 
Velo,


So, Skywest flies CRJ-900's around for $19 first year, but JetBlue flies EMB-190's around for $47 an hour first year, where both aircraft are the same size, and you REALLY think only JetBlue is affecting your pay scale?

Bossman you've really gotta pull your head out and take a look around. My company is flying Houston to Toronto in an RJ, and if you DON'T think that's affecting your negotiations then you've got another thing coming when my company comes up and takes a little bit more of your flying away or your company says, "Well why should we pay you more? Skywest is flying CRJ-1000's for $50 an hour less than you? You know we COULD farm some work out of them..."

Good luck out there in the land of make believe.
 
Was the vote strictly to bring in ALPA, or to bring in any union? Will the pilots be seeking to bring in other representation? Just curious.
 
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