QOL Good or Bad?

criticalaoa

Well-Known Member
I’m currently a CFI approaching ATP mins within 4-6 months. I have a CJO from a regional, although I have yet to accept a class date. I’m having a hard time deciding where I want to end up within the next year. I’ve got friends at the regional/majors pushing me to go 121. They insist the upgrade times and therefore QOL is actually decent. 12-18(sometimes more) days off a month, and the ability to make 80-90k as a captain after spending a year or two as an FO. Then you have the potential opportunities with the majors shortly after. I also hear from other sources how horrible 121 flying, and QOL is, especially for those with a family. Im married with young kids. he wife is all for the airlines, because she envisions me making 6 figures and flying for free one day.

The alternative option is to fly light twins for a small, but growing 135 operator. Home every night, although work days are long(especially in the summer), and only one day off a week. Single pilot, New England weather, so lots of low altitude IMC. I almost feel like it’s a right of passage, and a really cool challenge, different then blasting through the weather in a jet, and inspecting the overhead half the day(I’m sort of kidding because flying a jet also seems amazing). Pay will be a bit more than a 1st year FO at a regional, but I expect it will top out around 70-75, which I assume will take at least a few years. The wife figures, what good is it being home every night if you don’t get home until late, and your wiped out. At that point your living for your 1 day off, which will never be a weekend. In comparison, at a 121, although you’ll be completely gone half the month, you’ll also be off and home(assuming you don’t commute) the other half the month.
 
I think it would be crazy to go for the light twin job now if you want a long term career as a pilot.

Even top-end regional captain pay is way more than most college graduates could expect. If you make it to a major—which would seem likely—that’s a unicorn position for compensation and QOL. If your wife understands what your prospective schedule means for your family, that’s awesome. 6 days a week of long hours sounds miserable, I suspect she’s right about being home every night being worthless if you’re exhausted.
 
Being home every night isn't as it seems. If you're home in the evenings and out in the mornings, it's not always great. In some ways you get less days off. It's nice having three or four days off at a time and not thinking of work

People are so focused on number of days at home and not quality time at home
 
I’m currently a CFI approaching ATP mins within 4-6 months. I have a CJO from a regional, although I have yet to accept a class date. I’m having a hard time deciding where I want to end up within the next year. I’ve got friends at the regional/majors pushing me to go 121. They insist the upgrade times and therefore QOL is actually decent. 12-18(sometimes more) days off a month, and the ability to make 80-90k as a captain after spending a year or two as an FO. Then you have the potential opportunities with the majors shortly after. I also hear from other sources how horrible 121 flying, and QOL is, especially for those with a family. Im married with young kids. he wife is all for the airlines, because she envisions me making 6 figures and flying for free one day.

The alternative option is to fly light twins for a small, but growing 135 operator. Home every night, although work days are long(especially in the summer), and only one day off a week. Single pilot, New England weather, so lots of low altitude IMC. I almost feel like it’s a right of passage, and a really cool challenge, different then blasting through the weather in a jet, and inspecting the overhead half the day(I’m sort of kidding because flying a jet also seems amazing). Pay will be a bit more than a 1st year FO at a regional, but I expect it will top out around 70-75, which I assume will take at least a few years. The wife figures, what good is it being home every night if you don’t get home until late, and your wiped out. At that point your living for your 1 day off, which will never be a weekend. In comparison, at a 121, although you’ll be completely gone half the month, you’ll also be off and home(assuming you don’t commute) the other half the month.
IMO, at this point in your career you think you know stuff, but you don’t. You also think you know what you want, but you don’t. People on one side of the fence will convince you that the way they do things is the only way to do it but it’s really just to make them feel better about their position and anyone who says you will go to a regional, upgrade and then be off to a major in short order is also kinda FOS. All that seemingly negative info aside, after doing 91 in light twins, 91 corporate, 135 freight, air ambulance, regional and majors I’ll say that I’ve never had more time at home and better QOL that flying 121.
 
Being home every night isn't as it seems. If you're home in the evenings and out in the mornings, it's not always great. In some ways you get less days off. It's nice having three or four days off at a time and not thinking of work

People are so focused on number of days at home and not quality time at home
No crap, this right here!

I worked an office job for a little while before kids. Left the house every morning at 7. Got off at 5… home by six. We’d cook dinner, eat, and clean up. In bed by 2230. That’s four hours at home every night to cram in life. I guess 2 weekend days off a week. It was miserable. Sure I was home every night, but the amount of time I was home was negligible and having to go BACK to work loomed.

I work my airline job for 4 days. Home for 4+. That’s 4 full days at home uninterrupted. I’ll take that over home every night any time.
 
I’d go with a 121 job. Your wife is right. Eventually you’ll be burned out every evening you get home. IMO it’s not worth it to say “I’m home everyday”. That doesn’t even take into account getting ready for the next workday.
1 day off a week seems awful also. Most of the time I’m getting 2 days off a week right now and it’s tiring. I imagine you’ll spend that day doing daddy duties while also trying to find time to recharge. Besides the advice about going 121 I’d also try to find an airline where you don’t have to commute if possible. It’s not always possible but i’m learning it makes a world of difference.
 
The following is for 121 day trips only...


I'm doing a lot of day trips recently. It's nice to be in my own bed every night. For the GDL turns, by the time I get home (830pm) the son is already asleep and the daughter is in bed, so far I catch her awake and read a quick story and good night/tuck in. In the morning, I can see both kids before they head to school but I don't have time to drop them off. For other day trips that check in later, I could drop them at school. There's one day trip that is early (6am) that gets done about 130pm which would allow to pick kids up from school and spend the rest of the day with them.


I see the point about day trips and not quality time at home, but it all depends on how far from the airport you are (I'm pretty close) and what sort of hours the day trips are.


Being home every night isn't as it seems. If you're home in the evenings and out in the mornings, it's not always great. In some ways you get less days off. It's nice having three or four days off at a time and not thinking of work

People are so focused on number of days at home and not quality time at home
No crap, this right here!

I worked an office job for a little while before kids. Left the house every morning at 7. Got off at 5… home by six. We’d cook dinner, eat, and clean up. In bed by 2230. That’s four hours at home every night to cram in life. I guess 2 weekend days off a week. It was miserable. Sure I was home every night, but the amount of time I was home was negligible and having to go BACK to work loomed.

I work my airline job for 4 days. Home for 4+. That’s 4 full days at home uninterrupted. I’ll take that over home every night any time.


Biggest advantage to day trip lines is that they typically DO represent the highest day off lines. At our shop, if you have 19 or 20 day off lines, they are almost always exclusively day trip lines (highly productive day trips).

So you still get a lot of quality, true days off at home. And home every night to boot when you are at work.

Lets put it this way, when you do a multi-day trip, you are guaranteed 100% to be away from home. With day trips, I'm still home a portion. Either I can see them in the morning, the evening, or both. It all depends on the kind of day trip it is. With a 4-day trip, I see them on day 1 before leaving (if the hours are good) and day 4 after coming back (if the hours work out good). Day 2 and 3 are guaranteed to be away from home, and day 1 and 4 you may or may not see the kids.



The last time I did a 4-day trip was December! This lifestyle now is so much better. I do have a 4-day coming in June, not looking forward to it LOL.



@criticalaoa " The alternative option is to fly light twins for a small, but growing 135 operator. Home every night, although work days are long(especially in the summer), and only one day off a week. Single pilot, New England weather, so lots of low altitude IMC. I almost feel like it’s a right of passage, and a really cool "


6 days on and 1 day off? And in single pilot hard IMC? No way. Go to 121 flying. You'll have FAR more time at home and much more comfortable flying. Your wife and kids deserve better than 1 day off and some single pilot 135 outfit - especially in this market. Go 121 and don't even look back.
 
Isn't regional 121 CA pay a bit better than that? Or is that just due to the min years before upgrades at this point (i.e. CA at 2 years or whatever)?
 
So when I was a young guy, I did not want to go the airline route. I had a guy pushing me to get on a seniority list SOMEWHERE, and in hindsight, I wish I'd jumped earlier.

The 135 flying I did (3.5 years in piston singles, 1.5 years in piston twins, almost all single pilot), was great, and I learned a lot about flying, weather, etc. With that said, while it made training at the 121 easier and made upgrade a breeze, career wise, I would have been better off to go to PSA, Mesaba, ExpressJet, etc. (even with the knowledge that a lot of those regionals no longer exists).

This is the best time in anyone's memory to get into the airline business, and you want to get as high in seniority as quickly as you can. That means don't wait a year to take that offer.

BTW, the airliners have air conditioning; most light twins don't. Even the CRJ-200, the A/C worked better than having nothing. :)
 
You need to drop this wanting to fly a light piston for a growing 135 company idea and go 121 if you have the minimums and starting building 121 seniority somewhere for better pay, benefits, qol and 121 experience to land a better job that allow you to build seniority for even better pay, benefits, and qol. This is the best time to get in and move up. If you wait, you will miss the gravy train, and by the time the next train arrives, there will not be as much gravy left over.

You said yourself that the pay is going to cap around 70-75. You will top that quickly. You said home every night but long workdays, what good is being home every night if you are worn out from a long day of work/flying? Do you honestly think you can emotionally present at home if ya worn out from a long work day? You have to be honest with yourself on that. If you are unable to be emotionally present then How is that fair for your family?

Your wife is onto something here and I think you would be on something to pass going through 121 route. Just find the company that will be the best fit for you and your family.
 
As others have said, please get in to the 121 class as fast as you can. And I say that as a person who absolutely hated the lifestyle at 121.

You need total time right now (preferably turbine) and the regionals are the best way to earn it. You'll learn technique in a controlled crew environment. You'll learn standardization. Your hand flying skills may atrophy a bit, but only as much as you let them. Click the autopilot off and fly the plane a bit. Bottom line is that you'll be a better rounded pilot after 2-3 years of 121 flying.

Now all that said, if you don't live in a pilot base and aren't willing to move, 121 may not be your best option long term. This site has a lot of 121 pilots and that's the direction you'll see most advice push people toward. But, there are a few of us here who have good 91/135 jobs and would be happy to offer advice on how to get in to those positions. Again though, you need the total time first.

As an example, I do not live within driving distance of a base for a Major so commuting is the reality if I went back to 121. I love the private side and have made the choice to stay 91 flying for a Fortune 150 company. The busiest month I have had in my nearly 2 years of employment was this past March. I worked 14 days and spent 6 nights in a hotel. Most months, I work 8-12 days with 3-4 nights in a hotel. The day trips, I'm walking in to my house at 530-6pm. I have never had a job where I spent this many nights a month in my own bed. With 2 young kids at home, I can't picture myself doing anything else.
 
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I’m not a pilot but I do work 6 day weeks, and have for most of the last 14 years. Don’t do it. You’re exhausted all the time, you try to cram everything into your one day off and wind up with not enough time to do anything. If you do wind up with time you’re too tired to take advantage of it. Unless you know you’ll only be doing it for a year or two, stay far away from 6 day weeks.
 
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Isn’t cape air publicly announcing they aren’t hiring anyone unless it’s part of their flow programs? They said too many pilots are leaving so they won’t hire anyone off the street anymore.

I wonder why…


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