Qatar invading US market?

Murdoughnut said:
Just for those of us who don't know, what does FFD stand for?
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Fee For Departure: the outsourcing to the regionals. In most cases, the majors supply the aircraft and pay operations costs on the airplanes. The regionals provide personnel and training.
 
Nick said:
You're not looking hard enough.

One FFD went from wholly-owned to strictly third party contractor, and the legacy pilots with a say in things assisted in re-negotiating (read as: "retaining") a flow-through for pilots that were already on property at the newly-FFD carrier.

That counts as doing more than diddly for FFDs in my book.
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Which one?
 
Murdoughnut said:
Just for those of us who don't know, what does FFD stand for?
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Fee For Departure...basically all the regional airlines who subcontract to the majors under agreements where they get paid based on flight segments completed rather than how many pax are moved.
 
Cptnchia said:
Mainline pilots allowed the FFD carriers to spawn and grow, and got raked over the coals for it by low time pilots. Now, mainline pilots are trying to put the genie back in the bottle, and are getting raked over the coals by low time pilots for it.
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I see what you're saying, but there are still a lot of us current or former regional guys that would love to see everything get swallowed up by mainline.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
I see what you're saying, but there are still a lot of us current or former regional guys that would love to see everything get swallowed up by mainline.
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I completely agree. Either a staple with fences, or a while of no job with a mainline one in the future.

Unfortunately, I think the Comair debacle screwed the staple idea. And I know I'm going to catch flak for saying that.
 
mshunter said:
I completely agree. Either a staple with fences, or a while of no job with a mainline one in the future.

Unfortunately, I think the Comair debacle screwed the staple idea. And I know I'm going to catch flak for saying that.
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I don't like flow or staple in this case. The barrier to entry at many regionals aren't particularly high. There are a lot of people out there that just aren't trying. They should stay where they are.
 
mshunter said:
The few shouldn't ruin it for the many.
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If you're putting forth any kind of effort and aren't a "famous" personality, it shouldn't. Look at it this way. In an industry where seniority rules, moving to the next level is the only opportunity you have to skip over the captain that makes you think "this guy shouldn't even be in charge of a Taco Bell."
 
Screaming_Emu said:
If you're putting forth any kind of effort and aren't a "famous" personality, it shouldn't. Look at it this way. In an industry where seniority rules, moving to the next level is the only opportunity you have to skip over the captain that makes you think "this guy shouldn't even be in charge of a Taco Bell."
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Those guys are at every shop though. Being " famous" shouldn't have anything to do with it. I do a good job at work, stay below the radar, and quite honestly, don't have a whole bunch of time to become "famous" (if I interpreted what you mean by that correctly). I work to live, not the other way around.

I'd be perfectly happy being stapled, and taking the guys who don't deserve to be, who make up less than 5% with me.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
I don't like flow or staple in this case. The barrier to entry at many regionals aren't particularly high. There are a lot of people out there that just aren't trying. They should stay where they are.
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Not sure I follow."The barrier to entry at many regionals aren't particularly high.", yet these same guys/gals are safely flying the mainline partners pax around everyday. What makes the mainline job so much harder?
 
JetDoc said:
Not sure I follow."The barrier to entry at many regionals aren't particularly high.", yet these same guys/gals are safely flying the mainline partners pax around everyday. What makes the mainline job so much harder?
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The jobs are not any harder than others. They are more prestigious and pay more so guys and gals lay in bed at night worrying that someone is going to steal THEIR seat. So the race to the bottom...err, the top is one fraught with danger and full of sharp knives. One may start their career by working at a slime bucket outfit or even pay for their job but as they move up the ladder they realize it makes it easier (but it doesn't, not in reality) to keep going onwards and upwards if they start dropping a landmine here and there. So, people only want ALPA pilots hired at ALPA airlines. You get elitist types that buy into the idea that you must act like a sycophant to whoever works for a "career destination" so you can get the all important and magical INTERNAL REC (praise thy name!) instead of being a professional that is respected by his coworkers and jumpseaters.
Or not. Whatever. I'm just a pilot. What do I know?
 
JetDoc said:
Not sure I follow."The barrier to entry at many regionals aren't particularly high.", yet these same guys/gals are safely flying the mainline partners pax around everyday. What makes the mainline job so much harder?
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It's not a matter of being able to do the job, but rather being able to do the job better and rewarding those who work hard.

Yeah "those guys" are at every airline, but imagine how many it would be if only phone interviews were conducted.
 
BajtheJino said:
The jobs are not any harder than others. They are more prestigious and pay more so guys and gals lay in bed at night worrying that someone is going to steal THEIR seat. So the race to the bottom...err, the top is one fraught with danger and full of sharp knives. One may start their career by working at a slime bucket outfit or even pay for their job but as they move up the ladder they realize it makes it easier (but it doesn't, not in reality) to keep going onwards and upwards if they start dropping a landmine here and there. So, people only want ALPA pilots hired at ALPA airlines. You get elitist types that buy into the idea that you must act like a sycophant to whoever works for a "career destination" so you can get the all important and magical INTERNAL REC (praise thy name!) instead of being a professional that is respected by his coworkers and jumpseaters.
Or not. Whatever. I'm just a pilot. What do I know?
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Umm... no.

More that while the job is the same (actually, easier in many cases) the tolerance for people acting like a fool is much lower. Regionals take lots of idiots who can fly just fine but have the social skills of a 6 year old. Majors generally take fewer of that sort.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
It's not a matter of being able to do the job, but rather being able to do the job better and rewarding those who work hard.

Yeah "those guys" are at every airline, but imagine how many it would be if only phone interviews were conducted.
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"Those guys" are getting hired though. All you have to do is get called and make it through the interview.
 
mshunter said:
"Those guys" are getting hired though. All you have to do is get called and make it through the interview.
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Based on the people I know, not that I have seen.

Everyone I know that has gotten hired is good people. There was one that got hired by smurf jets, but after they did some digging the offer was rescinded. The system works...mostly.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
Based on the people I know, not that I have seen.

Everyone I know that has gotten hired is good people. There was one that got hired by smurf jets, but after they did some digging the offer was rescinded. The system works...mostly.
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There is a thread on the "other site" of some UAL Captains complaining about the attitudes of the recent batch of new hires reaching the line, Hogan test and being vetted by UAL pilots be damned!
 
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