Q. for Doug
- Thread starter Aussie
- Start date
Minnesota_Flyer
New Member
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Well, if you're an MD-88 captain, you most likely have the seniority to hold 777 FO. Or if you're a senior -88 captain, you might have the seniority to hold 777 captain.
You are allowed to bid whatever your seniority can get you. There were, back in the good old days, 727 flight engineers that were upgrading to 737 captain...
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Is there any pressure to upgrade to captain? Or can you stay on the equip./route you like even if that means passing an upgrade to Capt. on another equip./route (put another way, can you stay fat and happy in the 777 FO seat until you have the seniority to move to 777 Capt.)?
And I'm not implying that anyone in particularly is fat or happy.
MF
Well, if you're an MD-88 captain, you most likely have the seniority to hold 777 FO. Or if you're a senior -88 captain, you might have the seniority to hold 777 captain.
You are allowed to bid whatever your seniority can get you. There were, back in the good old days, 727 flight engineers that were upgrading to 737 captain...
[/ QUOTE ]
Is there any pressure to upgrade to captain? Or can you stay on the equip./route you like even if that means passing an upgrade to Capt. on another equip./route (put another way, can you stay fat and happy in the 777 FO seat until you have the seniority to move to 777 Capt.)?
And I'm not implying that anyone in particularly is fat or happy.
MF
When you start flying international do you have to have special training on differences in Air Traffic standards in different countries, or is it something you are supposed to pick up as you go? For instance I know that in UK (I think all Europe) the pressure setting is quoted in millibars NOT inches of mercury (as in US) and that Flight Level on an altitude is the standard setting and in the UK is used from 7,000 ft. and up. I know there are other procedural differences as well, especially in terms of issuing landing clearances.
FL270
New Member
Jeppesen charts list the transition altitude/level on them. In Europe, the first time you descent from a flight level to a QNH altitude, they'll give you the altimeter setting, just as they do in the States. (Here: level at FL190, "descend and maintain 15,000, Houston altimeter 30.05." There: level at FL80, "descend three thousand, Heathrow QNH 1015.")
I sat through "International Procedures" class at Continental several years ago. A lot of it was position plotting, how the NAT tracks work, entering and cross-checking your flight plan coordinates, use of HF radio and SELCAL, etc. Back then CO was flying mostly DC-10s across so ETOPS wasn't a big thing ... now with 757, 767, and 777 flights I'm sure ETOPS is covered at length. At the end the guy told us about some Customs "gotchas" ... ways to get yourself and your crew detained for quite a while by saying the wrong thing at the wrong time!
I sat through "International Procedures" class at Continental several years ago. A lot of it was position plotting, how the NAT tracks work, entering and cross-checking your flight plan coordinates, use of HF radio and SELCAL, etc. Back then CO was flying mostly DC-10s across so ETOPS wasn't a big thing ... now with 757, 767, and 777 flights I'm sure ETOPS is covered at length. At the end the guy told us about some Customs "gotchas" ... ways to get yourself and your crew detained for quite a while by saying the wrong thing at the wrong time!
[ QUOTE ]
When you start flying international do you have to have special training on differences in Air Traffic standards in different countries, or is it something you are supposed to pick up as you go? For instance I know that in UK (I think all Europe) the pressure setting is quoted in millibars NOT inches of mercury (as in US) and that Flight Level on an altitude is the standard setting and in the UK is used from 7,000 ft. and up. I know there are other procedural differences as well, especially in terms of issuing landing clearances.
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When my dh was international 767 with TWA he had to go through a day of 'international school'. They learned the track procedures for the north Atlantic, position reporting & other procedures. A lot of it was verification of your location. Pretty important when you consider how the tracks work! I remember him saying they had like 3 separate ways of plotting location, and when he asked why so much redundancy, his instructor told him some of it was hold over from the Connie days. (My dh flew a trip with a captain who started out as a FO on the Connie, and he told him all about celestial navigation with sextants & star sightings etc!) But the procedures were kept in place for safety. Never heard of a TWA airplane getting lost over the Atlantic did ya? I'll have to ask him for some more specifics as to what that class entailled!
When you start flying international do you have to have special training on differences in Air Traffic standards in different countries, or is it something you are supposed to pick up as you go? For instance I know that in UK (I think all Europe) the pressure setting is quoted in millibars NOT inches of mercury (as in US) and that Flight Level on an altitude is the standard setting and in the UK is used from 7,000 ft. and up. I know there are other procedural differences as well, especially in terms of issuing landing clearances.
[/ QUOTE ]
When my dh was international 767 with TWA he had to go through a day of 'international school'. They learned the track procedures for the north Atlantic, position reporting & other procedures. A lot of it was verification of your location. Pretty important when you consider how the tracks work! I remember him saying they had like 3 separate ways of plotting location, and when he asked why so much redundancy, his instructor told him some of it was hold over from the Connie days. (My dh flew a trip with a captain who started out as a FO on the Connie, and he told him all about celestial navigation with sextants & star sightings etc!) But the procedures were kept in place for safety. Never heard of a TWA airplane getting lost over the Atlantic did ya? I'll have to ask him for some more specifics as to what that class entailled!
Seggy
Well-Known Member
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At the end the guy told us about some Customs "gotchas" ... ways to get yourself and your crew detained for quite a while by saying the wrong thing at the wrong time!
[/ QUOTE ]
Just out of curiosity (if you can say) what are some of the "gotchas" you should be careful of?
Good luck Doug with going to International. Is the NYC 767 base the most "junior" one? Would you want to bid that one or go for ATL or CVG?
At the end the guy told us about some Customs "gotchas" ... ways to get yourself and your crew detained for quite a while by saying the wrong thing at the wrong time!
[/ QUOTE ]
Just out of curiosity (if you can say) what are some of the "gotchas" you should be careful of?
Good luck Doug with going to International. Is the NYC 767 base the most "junior" one? Would you want to bid that one or go for ATL or CVG?
seagull
Well-Known Member
We teach a two day ground school for international ops, plus it is mandatory for MD-11 captains that they get actual experience in both Pacific and Europe, which means crossing both oceans. The oceanic crossings have a lot of "gotcha's" in terms of navigation and crosscheck, proper position reporting. Operating in different countries requires being familiar with ICAO procedures as well as State specific procedures. Many differences. U.S. is pretty bad, with a lot of slang that just won't cut it internationally, plus procedure differences, from using meters for altimetry to various compulsary reports, many many issues. The flying is a heck of a lot more challenging than domestic, no comparison. Way too much to go into here. I am currently updating our international procedures and manuals, and it is a big process with more than 60 international trunk destinations and more charter destinations.
Then, of course, the layovers are more interesting as well...
Then, of course, the layovers are more interesting as well...
Tim
New Member
Doug
Delta's now formal head of customer service in ATL has been formally introduced as AirTrans station director is ATL also. We were told about it a few weeks ago. Supposedly Airtran is going to pay him more than he was getting at Delta. Not bad if you think about it..gets a delta retirement and new salary from Airtran...almost a Leo kinda deal
Delta's now formal head of customer service in ATL has been formally introduced as AirTrans station director is ATL also. We were told about it a few weeks ago. Supposedly Airtran is going to pay him more than he was getting at Delta. Not bad if you think about it..gets a delta retirement and new salary from Airtran...almost a Leo kinda deal
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
Intra-Europe
When we first started flying 727's out of CGN, we had no training on international OPS...you just figured it out as you went along. Later, after crewmembers complained, the company came out with some notes and things on what to expect when you went over there....it was a good handout, but no formal training. More recently, when they started sending the A300's over, there has been a class on intra-Europe ops for those guys....so things are getting better.
For flying across the pond, I have to do a few days of ETOPS classes and a sim session.
When we first started flying 727's out of CGN, we had no training on international OPS...you just figured it out as you went along. Later, after crewmembers complained, the company came out with some notes and things on what to expect when you went over there....it was a good handout, but no formal training. More recently, when they started sending the A300's over, there has been a class on intra-Europe ops for those guys....so things are getting better.
For flying across the pond, I have to do a few days of ETOPS classes and a sim session.