Push back with ¨¨trust Reverse¨¨

abrutus

abrutus

Well-Known Member
This is something that has got me thinking a long time ago.
Given the fact that Im not a pilot (Medical student) Please excuse my ignorance.
I fly a lot to the states Via DFW (AA). And around 3 years ago there was a time when on various ocations as I was waiting on my plane for our push back and start up I glanced over the window to the plane next to me and I got to see planes MD-80´s to be specific backing up on trust reverse, then they would aline themselves with the taxiway and keep taxing as normal.
I thought It was really cool seeing how it happened, since I dont get to see big airliners backing up by themselves a lot.
I was wondering if this is a common practice anywhere else?? I have to say I have not seen it anywhere else done and it was the last time I saw it done to (3 years ago). Do any of you guys get to use trust reverse on the ground for taxing purpuses??'..
;)
 
abrutus

abrutus

Well-Known Member
TXaviator said:
trust reverse? is that like where someone isnt your friend anymore?
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lol.. Give me a break!! Im still ¨¨Learning¨¨ English! its such a complex language!! lol....! :p
Spanish rocks!!:
:D
And yes.. I meant..Thrust reverse
 
SeanD

SeanD

Well-Known Member
There is a video on Youtube of an NWA DC9 pushing back with thrust reverse. I think only certain models can do it.
 
Cav

Cav

Former Maddog Whisperer
I can remember riding in the back of airliners with tail mounted engines a few years ago when they would do power backs. Most tail mounted aircraft are capable and certified to do them but I don't know of any US operators that still do them. The EMB-145 that I fly is capable of doing them however our company forbids it. The obvious hazards are hitting gate equipment, ground personnel injury, and having the engines ingest debris. Other problems are engine wear and tear, ramp noise pollution, and fuel usage.
 
TXaviator

TXaviator

Well-Known Member
abrutus said:
lol.. Give me a break!! Im still ¨¨Learning¨¨ English! its such a complex language!! lol....! :p
Spanish rocks!!:
:D
And yes.. I meant..Thrust reverse
Click to expand...

:-D

i lived in TX my whole life and i only know how to order foods, cervezas, and swear at people (or know when someone is talking about me)....

but yeah, "power back" is cool. i think its not common because of the FOD (foreign object debris/damage) issue... blowing a bunch of junk/trash around the ramp....

oh and yeah, gas is expensive nowdays... probably much cheaper to push it back with the truck
 
MarkE

MarkE

Murrrrrph!
Wasn't there an accident years back where one of the links in the chain was the use of thrust reverse at the gate and the ingestion of snow/ice?
 
flyinawa

flyinawa

Well-Known Member
I think American still does power-backs in Dallas. I would guess it's because of the convex shape of the terminal allows adequate spacing between the aircraft and there are no alleyways (ie: there isn't an airplane behind the one powering back that you might roll into), and only the MD-80 fleet is authorized due to the tail mounted engines. I'm pretty sure it's always strictly verboten in aircraft with engines mounted on the bottom of the wings. Too easy to suck FOD into the motor. Also, we used to do it with the ATR's in Miami. The big deal is to make sure both pilots do NOT have thier feet on the brakes. You had to stop the rolling backwards with power instead. Using the brakes could cause the plane to tip over on it's tail....
 
Nick

Nick

Well-Known Member
Powerback

abrutus said:
This is something that has got me thinking a long time ago.
Given the fact that Im not a pilot (Medical student) Please excuse my ignorance.
I fly a lot to the states Via DFW (AA). And around 3 years ago there was a time when on various ocations as I was waiting on my plane for our push back and start up I glanced over the window to the plane next to me and I got to see planes MD-80´s to be specific backing up on trust reverse, then they would aline themselves with the taxiway and keep taxing as normal.
I thought It was really cool seeing how it happened, since I dont get to see big airliners backing up by themselves a lot.
I was wondering if this is a common practice anywhere else?? I have to say I have not seen it anywhere else done and it was the last time I saw it done to (3 years ago). Do any of you guys get to use trust reverse on the ground for taxing purpuses??'..
;)
Click to expand...
The term given to this procedure is powerback.

The reason you probably see it less and less is because a couple companies have stopped authorizing the T-tail airplanes to powerback because it burns more fuel than a pushback with a tug does.

At Northwest in the DC-9 (and this is probably just like any other company that does it) they'd tell the ramp crew that they were going to do a powerback. The ramp crew would put goggles on for the little rocks and screws and pieces of trash and things that would blow around the ramp due to the wind, and the goggles protected their eyes from all that. The crew would start the engines right there at the gate and then request clearance to pushback from ground control or metering. Then the signal would be given to the ramper outside, and both pilots put their feet flat on the floor. Forward thrust was applied to get the plane off of the flat spots on the tires, and then into reverse and of course if anything happened during the reverse movement where they need to stop, the brakes cannot be used, just the throttles.
 
mooneyguy

mooneyguy

been around forever
MarkE said:
Wasn't there an accident years back where one of the links in the chain was the use of thrust reverse at the gate and the ingestion of snow/ice?
Click to expand...
Yes Air Florida flight 90, ended up in the Potomac river. it was a 737-222
They attempted to use reverse thrust to back out, but could not. then they spent nearly an hour between de-ice and take-off waiting to takeoff., and of course the anti-ice system was never turned on...very unfortunate
 
rjmore

rjmore

Gastrointestinally Challenged
Airtran used to do it a lot in ATL with their 717's. It just isn't worth the trouble anymore.
 
stillageek

stillageek

Well-Known Member
FYI AA does NOT do powerbacks in DFW (or anywhere else that I have flown them) anymore. IF AA allowed The Best Trained Pilots in the World to do powerbacks I am sure they would......just to burn Arpeys fuel.
 
jdlilfan

jdlilfan

Well-Known Member
BCTAv8r said:
I'd like to throw an "out there" kind of question. Could an aircraft fly backwards?:D
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What if it involved a treadmill...? jk I remember when I was knee-high to a grasshopper and watched Piedmont (Usair) doing power backs with -9's and -80's in the late 80's/ early 90's. Also remember watching ATA do the same with 727's.
 
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