PSA offering $5,000 sign-on bonus

T-Gates said:
Now that the flow has gone through the top of the list, it looks as though the top 60-65 on the seniority list are pretty solid as no-flows. Going down through the 2005 and later hires, I think very few will bypass. That group on average likely has 20-25 years left to 65 if they chose to flow up to AA. My best guess is that 1 out of every 10 will elect to bypass. This does not include attrition to other carriers.

To put it simply, the math at this point beyond 12 months is so soft that it's not even worth doing. So much can (and likely will) change the equation.

For a new hire, or a perspective new hire, all the flow should represent is a planned attrition that will provide seniority movement and Captain vacancies. Because the chances of the game being the same in 6+ years is pretty much slim to none.
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Yea, thats a good point. I was wondering about the top half, so that makes sense. As for the industry being different in 6 years, your absoultely right in that respect. I went back to posts from 2007 and its kinda funny to read about the projections back then.. look at the industry now. Major changes..
 
At least it is something.

XJT thinks guys will come here since, according to management "We have a really great training department."

Tone deafness doesn't even begin to express the level "out of touch" that exists at a certain level of management of the previously mentioned regional.


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Wow....talked to my buddy there and he said there was only 4 people in the last class and 3 people who just started February 1....!?! How's the new plane deliveries coming?
 
dialen said:
Wow....talked to my buddy there and he said there was only 4 people in the last class and 3 people who just started February 1....!?! How's the new plane deliveries coming?
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Airplanes are still coming. We are staffed for our flying and the next few months at least. If it comes to it, the company will temporarily park 200's on a 1 for 1 basis to staff the more profitable 7/900 deliveries.

When I started at PSA, they had a middle of the road contract and middle of the road pay. Now we have fallen behind other regionals considerably. Lots of talk of some new TAs coming down the pipeline, but so far, nothing from the company directly addressing the situation.

We need to be hiring 15 /month to staff for attrition. And another 15-20 to staff for growth. The company has said that they want to hire 500 in 2016. Unless they decide to make our compensation package more desirable, they will never get close to that number. Had my recurrent ground last month... Management came and talked to us and told us that they are well aware of the staffing issues we will face in 2016 and that "all options" are being looked at.
 
chrisreedrules said:
Airplanes are still coming. We are staffed for our flying and the next few months at least. If it comes to it, the company will temporarily park 200's on a 1 for 1 basis to staff the more profitable 7/900 deliveries.

When I started at PSA, they had a middle of the road contract and middle of the road pay. Now we have fallen behind other regionals considerably. Lots of talk of some new TAs coming down the pipeline, but so far, nothing from the company directly addressing the situation.

We need to be hiring 15 /month to staff for attrition. And another 15-20 to staff for growth. The company has said that they want to hire 500 in 2016. Unless they decide to make our compensation package more desirable, they will never get close to that number. Had my recurrent ground last month... Management came and talked to us and told us that they are well aware of the staffing issues we will face in 2016 and that "all options" are being looked at.
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Temporarily park 200s? If you think 200s are coming back after they're parked because they can't staff new 900s and eaglevoy 700s, well I have a bridge to sell you.

What I can't figure out is where Wisconsin and their 900 pilots play into this whole thing.
 
Soku39 said:
Temporarily park 200s? If you think 200s are coming back after they're parked because they can't staff new 900s and eaglevoy 700s, well I have a bridge to sell you.

What I can't figure out is where Wisconsin and their 900 pilots play into this whole thing.
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I would not be surprised to see someone purchase Wiski Air just to get the pilots.
 
I can't imagine the family would sell. That would have to be one hell of an offer for an operation thats leveraged into 70 or so 50 seat planes.
 
chrisreedrules said:
Airplanes are still coming. We are staffed for our flying and the next few months at least. If it comes to it, the company will temporarily park 200's on a 1 for 1 basis to staff the more profitable 7/900 deliveries.

When I started at PSA, they had a middle of the road contract and middle of the road pay. Now we have fallen behind other regionals considerably. Lots of talk of some new TAs coming down the pipeline, but so far, nothing from the company directly addressing the situation.

We need to be hiring 15 /month to staff for attrition. And another 15-20 to staff for growth. The company has said that they want to hire 500 in 2016. Unless they decide to make our compensation package more desirable, they will never get close to that number. Had my recurrent ground last month... Management came and talked to us and told us that they are well aware of the staffing issues we will face in 2016 and that "all options" are being looked at.
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Parking airplanes you are contracted to fly is normally a bad sign. Ask Republic.
So management is aware there is a problem and wants to pay pilots more. Wait... isn't the reason you got the flying- you underbid the Eagle pilots? What incentive is there for American to give you Eagle airplanes if you can't staff the airplanes you have and the costs advantage decreases?
Same happened at TSA. Underbid LXJT for E145 flying. United and TSA assumed the LXJT pilots would leave enmass to TSA in order to fly the airplanes. I think a little over 2 pilots a month went to TSA from all of XJT in 2015. Not enough to man the airplanes. Rumor is TSA went back to United and asked for more $ in order to attract pilots and UAL said no.
 
Soku39 said:
I can't imagine the family would sell. That would have to be one hell of an offer for an operation thats leveraged into 70 or so 50 seat planes.
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I don't know that a company that size will survive. Then again, since private ownership they don't have to worry about a shareholder revolt.
 
Blackhawk said:
Parking airplanes you are contracted to fly is normally a bad sign. Ask Republic.
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Different dynamic when you are wholly owned. There are no contracts. I believe other than those 30 -900s in the pilot contract AA has no requirement to keep any flying at PSA.

Anything that will hurt their bottom line will need to pass through Dallas so my guess is that the parking of -200s if needed has likely been their plan for a while.

Blackhawk said:
So management is aware there is a problem and wants to pay pilots more. Wait... isn't the reason you got the flying- you underbid the Eagle pilots?.
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Actually they currently are not in negotiations at all on any LOAs.

The new -900s were the only aircraft offered to the PSA pilot group during the voting period on their TA.

The way things have gone I can tell you that PSA would have likely gotten the aircraft regardless of vote. Streamlining the fleet decreases costs not to mention all the high paid flight crew they would be replacing at year 1 rates. Envoy wasn't able hire pilots either so that wasn't helping their cause at the time. PSA's pilot contract certainly doesn't have much cost in the back end (You would seriously be shocked at the bad QOL and benefits) compared to Envoy's either.

I still think the yes vote was still worthless but it didn't end up harming the industry as badly as I had thought.
 
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Maurus said:
Different dynamic when you are wholly owned. There are no contracts. I believe other than those 30 -900s in the pilot contract AA has no requirement to keep any flying at PSA.


Actually they currently are not in negotiations at all on any LOAs.

The new -900s were the only aircraft offered to the PSA pilot group during the voting period on their TA.

The way things have gone I can tell you that PSA would have likely gotten the aircraft regardless of vote. Streamlining the fleet decreases costs not to mention all the high paid flight crew they would be replacing at year 1 rates. Envoy wasn't able hire pilots either so that wasn't helping their cause at the time. PSA's pilot contract certainly doesn't have much cost in the back end (You would seriously be shocked at the bad QOL and benefits) compared to Envoy's either.

I still think the yes vote was still worthless but it didn't end up harming the industry as badly as I had thought.
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Perhaps no FFD contract per se, but I'm pretty sure AAL expects the airplanes to be flown and at a certain cost. If they aren't flown I can't imagine AAL management will say "No big deal."
 
Blackhawk said:
Perhaps no FFD contract per se, but I'm pretty sure AAL expects the airplanes to be flown and at a certain cost. If they aren't flown I can't imagine AAL management will say "No big deal."
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However, PSA has no control over those costs, all contracts are negotiated based on the financials of AAG, not PSA. AAG knows the staffing needs, knows the costs, and buys the airplanes.

The wholly-owned dynamic is way different than at a FFD carrier. But just because the dynamic is different doesn't mean it's better.
 
T-Gates said:
However, PSA has no control over those costs, all contracts are negotiated based on the financials of AAG, not PSA. An AAG VP has their signature on the PSA CBA. AAG knows the staffing needs, knows the costs, and buys the airplanes.

The wholly-owned dynamic is way different than at a FFD carrier. But just because the dynamic is different doesn't mean it's better.
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Pretty much this. Let us not forget that the soft parking of -200s in favor of 700s and 900s may very well be the plan dictated by Dallas.
 
If they raise pay at one of the WOs, the other two will also have to see their pay and QOL increase. It's funny to watch dougwieser in his state of the airline addresses. Other than stumbling over every word that comes out of his mouth, he always talks about how great of an opportunity that WO pilots have and that he doesn't understand why the WOs are having trouble recruiting. In reference to the 4/12 pay scale, he likes to say that was necessary because "the world has changed." Well, Dougweiser, the world has changed again. It's a one way street with these guys...
 
Comair 100ER said:
If they raise pay at one of the WOs, the other two will also have to see their pay and QOL increase. It's funny to watch dougwieser in his state of the airline addresses. Other than stumbling over every word that comes out of his mouth, he always talks about how great of an opportunity that WO pilots have and that he doesn't understand why the WOs are having trouble recruiting. In reference to the 4/12 pay scale, he likes to say that was necessary because "the world has changed." Well, Dougweiser, the world has changed again. It's a one way street with these guys...
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I agree. I think it's a common theme with the execs to be slightly out of touch with that exactly is going on. Then again, the good ones are just as calculating as any shrewd businessman. So it makes me wonder if this all isn't just engineered this way.
 
Blackhawk said:
Based on past performance I would never count on a flow through being there at the advertised time frame. Things change.
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Copy. This was made tongue in cheek. I was at eagle way more than 2.5 years, was only about 15 lines away from slipping back to reserve, no upgrade, no flow. I quit and went to a major. Things will turn around there but to me there were too many questions and I felt an obligation to my wife and baby to not be a regional fo any longer than necessary, especially at a shrinking carrier.
 
Comair 100ER said:
If they raise pay at one of the WOs, the other two will also have to see their pay and QOL increase. It's funny to watch dougwieser in his state of the airline addresses. Other than stumbling over every word that comes out of his mouth, he always talks about how great of an opportunity that WO pilots have and that he doesn't understand why the WOs are having trouble recruiting. In reference to the 4/12 pay scale, he likes to say that was necessary because "the world has changed." Well, Dougweiser, the world has changed again. It's a one way street with these guys...
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I usually say drunk Dougie, but I love Dougweisser, thanks for that one!
 
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