Progression of a commercial pilot

Hey Trevor. If you really want to do rotor wing you should look into the army. It's way more expensive to pursue helicopters via the civilian route than fixed wing. My feeling is fixed wing has a much better chance for more income and quality of life in the career than helicopters but if that's your thing then you need to decide what your direction will be. If you think ATP is expensive start looking at what it costs to go from zero to rotor wing CFI. I don't even know but it's gotta be a lot more. Also, the ATP CFI guarantee has strings attached. Not everyone makes it. Check out the ATP forum. I've never been a fan of ATP for a lot of reasons. It's all at the forums if you do a search.
 
Trevor Merrill said:
Any suggestions regarding getting a heli add-on after the fact and going with that career path? Primarily an organization such as flight for life.
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If you want to do rotor, do rotor. A private fixed is ok, but I don't think I'd spend more money on fixed wing than that because it's going to probably cost you 2x to do rotor anyways.
It'll take you many many years to build the experience required to do Helicopter EMS.
 
I'd avoid ATP.

At a time a few years ago when prices were much lower, and the company was a little more customer oriented (nobody had the $ to fly, so they worked with people) I think it was justifiable for the right person.

The numbers for that loan do not work, the training has been cut and the guaranteed job is just a joke to get lenders to agree to finance students. If you leave early (many do, I'd estimate MOST do not finish the program as advertised) you will be billed outrageous fees.

I didn't take out "the loan" but pretty much every person I know who did (at the higher price point) are hurting badly financially. ATP and Regional airlines do not pay enough to live and pay back that loan.
 
DE727UPS said:
Hey Trevor. If you really want to do rotor wing you should look into the army. It's way more expensive to pursue helicopters via the civilian route than fixed wing. My feeling is fixed wing has a much better chance for more income and quality of life in the career than helicopters but if that's your thing then you need to decide what your direction will be. If you think ATP is expensive start looking at what it costs to go from zero to rotor wing CFI. I don't even know but it's gotta be a lot more. Also, the ATP CFI guarantee has strings attached. Not everyone makes it. Check out the ATP forum. I've never been a fan of ATP for a lot of reasons. It's all at the forums if you do a search.
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I have looked at going in the CG but due to some medical issues I can't do aviation in the military however I can still get my class one medical no problem. I was really bummed when that didn't work out.
 
crfguy51 said:
I'd avoid ATP.

At a time a few years ago when prices were much lower, and the company was a little more customer oriented (nobody had the $ to fly, so they worked with people) I think it was justifiable for the right person.

The numbers for that loan do not work, the training has been cut and the guaranteed job is just a joke to get lenders to agree to finance students. If you leave early (many do, I'd estimate MOST do not finish the program as advertised) you will be billed outrageous fees.

I didn't take out "the loan" but pretty much every person I know who did (at the higher price point) are hurting badly financially. ATP and Regional airlines do not pay enough to live and pay back that loan.
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After hearing what everyone has said I think I am going to do it all via part 61. I called ATP and they said they offer full refunds for any reason but everyone says otherwise which worries me. Also, two different people quoted me different interest rates (a difference a 4%) which is really worrisome.
 
Trevor Merrill said:
Thanks for the advice. How did it end up being 45k? Does doing it slower make it any cheaper? Or was that just since you were doing it at a local place? I am not in this for the money but I would like to make a decent living (at least after 3-4 years of living off ramen).

PS: sorry to all for the late responses, being new I need all my posts approved by moderators first.
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I was about 10 years between getting a PPL and the CFI for me, bit I didn't fly at all for 5 years in the middle of that.

PPL cost me about $3,500 back in 2000. I miss the 152 @ $34/hr wet....
Instrument was about $4,500 in 2008.
I got the hours for a commercial either flying or towing gliders over 2 years for about $3,500.
A friend on JC did the C-ASEL and CFI-A for free (I paid for the plane/check rides, about $1600 total). The CFI-I was about $1200 2 years later.
Zero to 3 CFI's was about 20k over 10 years, so I would say going slow it can be done cheap.

I have spent way more than that on "fun" flights over the years, usually going out of town for the weekend, splitting that 4 ways.

Having friends that are pilots/CFI's/airplane owners can make things much, much cheaper.
 
Trevor Merrill said:
After hearing what everyone has said I think I am going to do it all via part 61. I called ATP and they said they offer full refunds for any reason but everyone says otherwise which worries me. Also, two different people quoted me different interest rates (a difference a 4%) which is really worrisome.
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Keep in mind that you can find an FBO program that is Part 141.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
I was about 10 years between getting a PPL and the CFI for me, bit I didn't fly at all for 5 years in the middle of that.

PPL cost me about $3,500 back in 2000. I miss the 152 @ $34/hr wet....
Instrument was about $4,500 in 2008.
I got the hours for a commercial either flying or towing gliders over 2 years for about $3,500.
A friend on JC did the C-ASEL and CFI-A for free (I paid for the plane/check rides, about $1600 total). The CFI-I was about $1200 2 years later.
Zero to 3 CFI's was about 20k over 10 years, so I would say going slow it can be done cheap.

I have spent way more than that on "fun" flights over the years, usually going out of town for the weekend, splitting that 4 ways.

Having friends that are pilots/CFI's/airplane owners can make things much, much cheaper.
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Thanks for all the info. I think prices have probably gone up a decent amount since 2000 but definitely not that much. I do have some friends that are pilots at skydiving dropzones, but none that own a plane. I'm meeting with a local flight school tomorrow to see what prices they offer.
 
I got my PPL in 2010 with around 56hrs for $8,800 (all inclusive) in a 152. I took almost 6 months break in the middle. Then went into my IR in 2011 (in a 172), with 50hrs XC, and 20hrs Sim/Redbird. It was about $8,500, might be a few hundred off. In 2012, I earned my MEL in 12 hrs for around $4,200.
 
I wonder if you could use gliders to build time in an economical manner, especially toward the commercial.
 
Hey Trevor,
An ATP product myself, I can tell you in all honesty that their program works, but prepare to be "just a number" as a student and an employee. They're a cold, mean pilot factory and couldn't give a rat's a** about you as a person or your needs. Their entire world is income and how many people they can "get through" their program (statistics). While this is the case, their program works as advertised and is ABSOLUTELY the quickest and most efficient way to get all your certificates.
With that said, I would recommend ATP for (self-motivated) people as students, but not as *ahem* independent contractors (disposable, tax-avoidable labor). As a CFI, you can make more money and have a MUCH better QOL at a different school (Transpac, CAE, etc). You might build time a tiny bit slower at these other schools, but you'll be making 15K over ATP CFIs per year and keep your dignity and sanity intact; I lost both during my 15 month tenure instructing for ATP.
Anywho, I hope this is somewhat helpful. I wish you the best of luck on your decisions and your journey to the best job in the freaking galaxy.
 
Progression of a Commercial pilot:

Optimism
Starvation
False Hope
Despair
Marriage
Divorce
Recovery
Marriage
Divorce
Bankruptcy
Resignation
Retirement

Did I miss a step?

Richman
 
Retirement-really? Somebodys got to support the Baby Boomers in nursing homes.
so over in the Trading Post I'm offering a 67 Piper 140 for sale.
2nd annual by an IA and most of the upgrades are listed over there.
Nobody has suggested a simple low time plane you could insure, then fly for the fuel plus instructor compensation.
Get your hours and sell the plane-
just sayin,...
 
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