Professionalism...is sometimes lacking.

SteveC

SteveC

"Laconic"
Staff member
I had the pleasure of riding in the back of an Express Jet plane tonight and I was not impressed.

We were light - maybe 10 pax total on board - so someone up front decides it's a good time for a high performance take-off. We roll around the corner and the power comes in and she accelerates really nicely because we're light. Coming through rotation speed the nose slowly comes off the ground, but to an abnormally low pitch attitude. We roll on the mains for a while, accelerating, and the airplane very slowly begins a climb. By the end of the 10,000 foot runway we are, maybe, 50 feet off the ground and hauling ass. Then, wheeee, hard pull on the yoke and we do a big airspeed/altitude swap. Coming through 500 feet (just a guess) the ailerons get thrown over quickly into a steeper than standard rate turn, maybe approaching a 45 degree steep turn. About a 45 degree heading change and we quickly roll back wings level.

Who does that with pax on board???
 
They doing a climb into closed traffic on the inside downwind there, like Id do in my T-38? :)

You are going to unearth the wrath of the "don't criticize us from the back, lowly peon pax!" airline crowd. :D
 
Mike I am not going to say it didn't happen like Steve posted but there are some things that just don't work in the 145 and keeping the plane low is hard and dangerous.
 
Gonzo said:
Mike I am not going to say it didn't happen like Steve posted but there are some things that just don't work in the 145 and keeping the plane low is hard and dangerous.
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I wouldn't imagine its common practice. Am just curious what the experienced rank and file such as yourself have for comments. Appreicate the input, it's good stuff.
 
ASpilot2be said:
You must have some remarkable coconuts!
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Oh but I do... I am often asked for autographs and to attend certain events as a guest speaker. I leave girls quivering when they leave my plane... and I don't have to say a single word. Life is good when you have BETA.
 
Avalon781ML said:
You will have to give us a write up on the CASA... I've always heard good reviews beyond a lack of speed... I would thoroughly enjoy hearing your perspective.
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I certainly will do that!

Ok Steve, you can have your thread back.
 
Was this out of O'Hare by chance? That would explain the high performance T.O. (or at least a full thrust TO). Due to the climb restrictions on the departure they just threw out a blanket policy (irregardless of weight) that we always perform a max thrust TO.

As to their poor airmanship with pax aboard, I agree 100% that it lacks professionalism. Typically I don't run across many "cowboys" like the one you mentioned but we have our fair share of guys who can't seem to follow a procedure in day-to-day ops. Airmanship is not in abundance here, but we do have a decent contract that we love to talk about ;-) !!!
 
We had a CA at whiskey that was doing that foolishness and he got send to HQ ad given some time off for that crap. There is no sense in that foolishness. This guy had a mig he flew in air shows and would routinely try to fly the RJ like that. No sense in that.
 
SteveC said:
I had the pleasure of riding in the back of an Express Jet plane tonight and I was not impressed.

We were light - maybe 10 pax total on board - so someone up front decides it's a good time for a high performance take-off. We roll around the corner and the power comes in and she accelerates really nicely because we're light. Coming through rotation speed the nose slowly comes off the ground, but to an abnormally low pitch attitude. We roll on the mains for a while, accelerating, and the airplane very slowly begins a climb. By the end of the 10,000 foot runway we are, maybe, 50 feet off the ground and hauling ass. Then, wheeee, hard pull on the yoke and we do a big airspeed/altitude swap. Coming through 500 feet (just a guess) the ailerons get thrown over quickly into a steeper than standard rate turn, maybe approaching a 45 degree steep turn. About a 45 degree heading change and we quickly roll back wings level.

Who does that with pax on board???
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I don't doubt that somebody cranked it over in their turn, but as Aaron said, keeping it low and fast over the runway is hard to do in this airplane. Within a few feet of getting off the ground you're trimming down pretty quickly, and I don't think you could trim the thing fast enough to keep it 50' off the ground for 10,000' of runway, especially considering that with 10 people on board and with a full T/O you'll rotate within the first few thousand feet (flex takeoff settings aren't allowed at Chicago due to the crossing restriction). Also, you've got two options in this thing for rotation; slow which is usually pretty smooth, or quick, which rips the airplane off the ground when you do so.

But, relating to that, is the big altitude swap is the climb profile for Chicago. Climbing at Vfs or maybe 180 knots will seem like you're going straight up in this thing, but that's the climb profile in order to meet the crossing restrictions out of Chicago.

To tell you the truth this doesn't sound like a pilot flying the airplane, but instead the autopilot, the steep bank angles (though not 45 degrees) for short turns, the high pitch attitudes to capture a speed, all while doing it abruptly is exactly how the autopilot operates on this aircraft.
 
There were a few airports where nonstandard takeoffs were required due to a short runway and/or noise abatement. In those situations I always made a point of briefing the pax so they would not freak out- after all, the airlines are a customer service industry.
As for trying things when on MX flights or repo, even then remember it is someone else's airplane and the Pinnacle crash. If you want to goof off in an airplane go rent one.
 
SteveC said:
I had the pleasure of riding in the back of an Express Jet plane tonight and I was not impressed.

We were light - maybe 10 pax total on board - so someone up front decides it's a good time for a high performance take-off. We roll around the corner and the power comes in and she accelerates really nicely because we're light. Coming through rotation speed the nose slowly comes off the ground, but to an abnormally low pitch attitude. We roll on the mains for a while, accelerating, and the airplane very slowly begins a climb. By the end of the 10,000 foot runway we are, maybe, 50 feet off the ground and hauling ass. Then, wheeee, hard pull on the yoke and we do a big airspeed/altitude swap. Coming through 500 feet (just a guess) the ailerons get thrown over quickly into a steeper than standard rate turn, maybe approaching a 45 degree steep turn. About a 45 degree heading change and we quickly roll back wings level.

Who does that with pax on board???
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Eh, last guy that did something similar to that around here was dropped down to FO and given some time off unpaid to think about it. I hope it wasn't as bad as you say.
 
One other thing to think about when you deviate from your airline profiles. You may start entering the "test pilot" realm and encountering things the manufacturer did not anticipate. Don't have the time to look it up, but one of the early CRJ crashes occurred in Witchita when the crew over rotated on takeoff. This caused fuel to flow back in the wing, causing an unanticipated rearward shift in CG, which ended poorly for the crew. I'll have to look up the crash- I don't think the crew did anything that would be considered aerobatic, just excessive.
 
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