Proceed direct FIX vs cleared to FIX on STARs

[oktex88]

Lets take the Gopher 5 arrival at KMSP for a example. http://dtpp.myairplane.com/pdfs/00264GOPHER.PDF

The aircraft has filed AXN.GEP5 and is currently directly over AXN.

If ATC tells the aircraft "proceed direct OLLEE" and no other instructions are given is the aircraft expect to just resume the arrival when reaching OLLEE?

I know if atc said "cleared to OLLEE" and no other instructions after that I would need to hold at OLLEE.

 

[Dugie8]

I believe the ATC handbook requires ATC to tell you to resume the SID/STAR. just direct a fix without further instructions (sans destination) is incorrect. As always ask if unclear.

 

[genot]

Its not technically correct, but if I say direct a fix on a DP or STAR I assume you'll be continuing on the DP or STAR once at said point. If you want to ask, but I don't think any controller would say go to ABCDE and expect you to hold at said point without further clearance. You'd receive holding instructions otherwise.

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

Had you already been cleared to fly the STAR? If not, I think it's just a fix. The fact that you're being asked to navigate to some fix in space (whether on a SID, STAR, approach chart, airway) doesn't implcityly clear you for anything that comes after.

 

[FM_Weasel]

Clarification is required by the controller. If you don't receive enough information so as to make the operation not ambiguous, then please ask the controller for clarification.

Here's an excerpt from the manual that requires us to give you this information if being cleared back onto a SID/STAR after receiving a vector:

JO 7110.65 5-6-2 Vectoring Methods:

5-6-2. c.

c. Issue with the vector an altitude to maintain and
all appropriate altitude restrictions when:

1. The vector will take the aircraft off an
assigned procedure which contains altitude instructions,
i.e., instrument approach, nonradar SID, FMSP,
etc.

2. The previously issued clearance included
crossing restrictions.

Firstly, we have to issue any restrictions we want you to comply with that are normally followed on the SID/STAR if we vector you off it.

Secondly, we have to tell you what's expected after we're done vectoring you

5-6-2 d.
d. If appropriate, advise the pilot what to expect
when the vector is completed.

PHRASEOLOGY
EXPECT TO RESUME (Route, SID, STAR, FMSP, etc.).

RESUME (name/numberFMSP/SID/transition/STAR/
procedure).

5-6-2 f.
f. Aircraft instructed to resume a procedure which
contains restrictions (SID/STAR/FMSP, etc.) shall be
issued/reissued all applicable restrictions or shall be
advised to comply with those restrictions.

PHRASEOLOGY
RESUME (name/numberFMSP/SID/transition/STAR),
COMPLY WITH RESTRICTIONS.

How about when just cleared direct to a fix from wherever you were on your last assigned routing? Well, here's what it says about that:

4-2-5 a. 3. and NOTE

a. Amend route of flight in a previously issued
clearance by one of the following:

3. Issue a clearance “direct” to a point on the
previously issued route.

PHRASEOLOGY
CLEARED DIRECT (fix).

NOTE-
Clearances authorizing “direct” to a point on a previously
issued route do not require the phrase “rest of route
unchanged.” However, it must be understood where the
previously cleared route is resumed. When necessary, “rest
of route unchanged” may be used to clarify routing.

It must be understood where a previously cleared route is resumed. I feel that the STAR should be restated, or "resume the (name) arrival" or something to that extent.

 

[queeno]

it depend how the clearence is worded if cleared "TO" a fix is a short stop clearence and the A/C would be excepted to hold at the fix if not re cleared past it.using the word "TO" before a fix is a clearence limit. the word "DIRECT" is a clearance to procede to a fix and resume the cleared route and ATC is NOT expecting the pilot to hold.

the phraseology for this type of clrn woud be " N123 cleared TO PMM no delay expected " if no clearence onward or new clearance limit was given the pilot would hold at PMM. this is mostly a non radar clearence but can be used with radar also, or a " N123 cleared DIRECT PMM" would be a proceed to PMM and resume the cleared route with no holding. i think most pilots are use to hearing phrases lile "resume own nav" or " rest of route un changed " etc but it is not needed as shown in the post above of the 7110 phraseology.

OG

 

[McNevin]

Technically you should always be cleared direct, not proceed direct from center. If I said cleared direct OLLEE, you resume the GEP5 (as long as you were already cleared to MSP via the GEP5 arrival in your clearance). Then it is just like a shortcut. If I said cleared to OLLEE intersection (which I should follow with "no delay expected" or holding instructions) that would mean that is your new clearance limit and if you havent been cleared beyond that when you reach it you should hold. We routinely give OLLEE to help in sequencing since the GEP5 also has a feed from BRD. We need to have aircraft about 10 in trail on the arrival and often times an aircraft coming from FAR or AXN is going much faster than an aircraft coming over BRD or DLH so the speed difference has to be taken into account. If we were expecting you to hold, we'd send you to GOLLF since it has published holding. If you ever want to watch this from the other side of the scope, PM me. I have probably talked to you on the radio already

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

Technically you should always be cleared direct, not proceed direct from center. If I said cleared direct OLLEE, you resume the GEP5 (as long as you were already cleared to MSP via the GEP5 arrival in your clearance).

That was the question I had about the OP - nothing to indicate that the pilot had already received a STAR clearance.

 

[RobertB]

If you are told, "proceed direct OLLEE," you are expected to resume the arrival when reaching OLLEE.
Probably cutting the corner due to traffic or just trying to get you to your destination quicker...

If you are told, "cleared to OLLEE," you are expected to hold at OLLEE.
You can expect holding before proceeding to your destination...

 

[McNevin]

I think proceed vs cleared is more phraseology based. I know proceed direct isnt taught anymore and I only hear older controllers saying it. I think it used to be generally accepted that you'd say proceed direct to an aircraft if you weren't implying a change (like after weather deviations) and cleared direct if you were amending their flight plan (like in a shortcut). Cleared to and cleared direct are two different things. Cleared to implies it is a clearance limit, you are only cleared to that fix. Cleared direct means you can go to that fix directly and then resume your filed flight plan route.

 

[SteveC]

That was the question I had about the OP - nothing to indicate that the pilot had already received a STAR clearance.

It's interesting how our different perspectives brings differing assumptions.

In our flying we normally file a STAR (if available at the airports we're using) and will typcially receive a clearance to fly those routes before ever leaving the ground. That's why when I read the OP I automatically assume that he DID have a clearance for the arrival. I don't ever recall getting cleared to a fix on an arrival that we weren't already cleared to fly, but it is very very common to be given a "direct to" a fix somewhere farther down the line on a previously cleared arrival.

edit to add: one exception that crops up frequently is when they change us to a different arrival than originally planned. Then we'll get a "fly direct FIX for the BUMPKUS-ONE arrival" or something like that.

 

[FM_Weasel]

If you are told, "proceed direct OLLEE," you are expected to resume the arrival when reaching OLLEE.
Probably cutting the corner due to traffic or just trying to get you to your destination quicker...

If you are told, "cleared to OLLEE," you are expected to hold at OLLEE.
You can expect holding before proceeding to your destination...

Can you reference the section of the .65 that says this? I was unaware it worked this way.

 

[RobertB]

Can you reference the section of the .65 that says this? I was unaware it worked this way.

ATC: "DAL123, proceed direct OLLEE. Descend and maintain 12,000. The MSP altimeter 29.95..."

or

ATC: "DAL123, proceed direct OLLEE. Cross OLLEE at and maintain 11,000 at 250 knots. The MSP altimeter 29.95..."

or

ATC: "DAL123, fly heading 095. When able, proceed direct OLLEE."


Which one of the above is correct or are they all correct?

I would say 5-6 allows for using both "proceed direct" and "cleared direct."

"Cleared to" is a short range clearance. There is nothing past the point you are being cleared to. So...
ATC: "DAL123, cleared direct to OLLEE, expect a five minute delay (or something like that)."