Private Pilot doing illegal charters

elmetal said:
the commercial ticket does absolutely nothing to allow him to do this.

What it sounds like he is doing is charter. which he needs a 135 cert for.

Now, should you care? Not really. let him be.
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Well, people you work with can be part 91 / certain circumstances.

And again, wasn't there / we dont know everything / not jumping to conclusions / pax don't know what they are talking about.
 
Private pilot, rented plane from a source which we assume is not owned by pax, flying random passengers who clearly have never met the aforesaid private pilot for a flight described as charter.

Illegal even if he wasn't getting paid, because he is clearly holding out. If his buddy walked in the FBO, totally different story.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2
 
Boris Badenov said:
I don't see that you have an exposure here. What he does with the airplane is on him. That said, I'm not an attorney, maybe you should talk to one.

Whatever the case, as you point out, you're not the aviation police, so I'd hope calling the FSDO is out.
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Looking at the world only as it affects oneself is something that occurs on the lower levels of the sociological structure. Idly standing by while someone who is not trained, qualified, or legal to accept responsibility for the lives of others does so, is not the act of a responsible individual.

If you were on the highway and you saw a drunk driver would you take no action if that person were not an immediate threat to you? Would you make a call to the police in an effort to save the lives of others?
 
Houston said:
Looking at the world only as it affects oneself is something that occurs on the lower levels of the sociological structure. Idly standing by while someone who is not trained, qualified, or legal to accept responsibility for the lives of others does so, is not the act of a responsible individual.

If you were on the highway and you saw a drunk driver would you take no action if that person were not an immediate threat to you? Would you make a call to the police in an effort to save the lives of others?
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Driving drunk is not even close to the level of risk endured when a private pilot takes up a passenger illegally. I see where you're trying to go with this but find a more realistic comparison.
 
I'll echo what most everyone has said.

1st, As this guy's former instructor you should have a serious talk with him. Tell him in no uncertain terms that what he appears to be doing is highly illegal. If this talk does not bring about a dramatic change of heart, then proceed to step 2

2nd, If he is renting from an FBO then you should warn them about this. They are being exposed to a HUGE amount of liability when (not if) something goes wrong. I would advise them not to rent airplanes to him under any circumstances.

3rd, do not have any further business relationship with him. Do NOT give him any more instruction under any circumstances, don't ferry his airplane for him, nothing. Don't be shy about encouraging others to do the same.
 
Jet said:
Driving drunk is not even close to the level of risk endured when a private pilot takes up a passenger illegally. I see where you're trying to go with this but find a more realistic comparison.
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You tell me. What level of illegal activity is okay with you? What level of risk does one human being have to impose upon another before you would take an action? Would you allow your mother to fly aboard an airplane that you knew was being operated illegally?
 
Nope. I don't do the Fed's work for them. Now, I think everyone in this thread probably knows that if a guy is doing 134.5 enough that it's putting charter guys out of business, even the FAA is going to notice.
 
Pilot2087 said:
1. He does not know all of his passengers. In fact, a women came in with two kids asking about a charter to x. I introduced her to her pilot (my student) and off they went (All of his flying though is through the same company though that he works for)
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Sounds like the company he works for is using your FBO as a de-facto flight department and him as the de-facto pilot. You definitely want to take this up the command chain at your company.
 
This isn't 134.5! This isn't even 134.25. This is just some dude with a private getting paid to charter. With all of the costs of a 135 business, how can a 135 even come close to competing with this guy?

The rules level the playing field, if we don't all play by the rules, the guy doing it the right way will lose.

Don't go down that slippery slope, that's EXACTLY how society is in brazil, and it's a damn hellhole.

Trust me, I've lived here for 11 years

(lived in the US for 14years, just moved in December, moving back next month)
 
Remind me, Im kinda rusty on this area, a private pilot is not holding out, its incidental to a business he works for, he is paying pro ratio share. This is illegal? It seems like it should be, but why?

How is this company legal? http://www.flyshare.com/faq.asp#p.1 Looks like they are holding out to the public to me.
 
I'd talk to the owner, and encourage him to cut the guy off if he continues. Should there be an accident, I can picture a lawyer asking "When did you find out what was happening, and what did you do about it?"

No we are not sky police, but we do have a certain duty. The majority of what the FAA allows us to do goes by the honor system. If that system is found to be flawed, expect serious repercussions that none of us want. As an example, I dealt with mostly international students, and they all have to get their logbooks signed, sealed and verified in order to get anything done. That's of course just the tip of the iceberg for them.

Perhaps if he's unwilling to cooperate, you can have a word with some of his passengers?
 
Fly_Unity said:
Remind me, Im kinda rusty on this area, a private pilot is not holding out, its incidental to a business he works for, he is paying pro ratio share. This is illegal? It seems like it should be, but why?

How is this company legal? http://www.flyshare.com/faq.asp#p.1 Looks like they are holding out to the public to me.
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That is not legal. That is the definition of holding out. They quote 61.113 like it's the only reg that matters.
 
This isn't illegal because of the compensation involved, it is illegal because there is clearly no common purpose to the flight, common carriage applies.

In order for the flights to be legal, the guy would first off need a commercial pilot certificate, and secondly he would need a 135 certificate because the company he is providing transportation for for does not have operational control over the airplane. For that matter, he'd need his own airplane, or the FBO would need to be part of the 135 certificate.

This operation needs to stop. As I said before, take it up the chain of command at your FBO. What should happen is they will probably cut the rental as this would clearly violate any FBO rental agreement and the FBO insurance policy, and also a kind letter to the renter's company explaining the situation (they probably don't know the ins and outs of FARs) and why they will need to find alternate transportation for their employees.

You may have a legal duty to report to higher-ups, because if an accident does happen, the investigation will discover that the operation was conducted illegally, and the investigators will start asking questions at the FBO. When it is determined that an employee of the FBO had knowledge of the operation being conducted, the FBO will no longer be free from liability UNLESS they determine that you had a duty to report to them (you do) which was not followed. At that point, you'll be fired and open to any liability in civil suit and possibly certificate action as well.

I'm not a lawyer, but looking the other way is a bad idea.
 
gotWXdagain said:
This isn't illegal because of the compensation involved, it is illegal because there is clearly no common purpose to the flight, common carriage applies.

In order for the flights to be legal, the guy would first off need a commercial pilot certificate, and secondly he would need a 135 certificate because the company he is providing transportation for for does not have operational control over the airplane. For that matter, he'd need his own airplane, or the FBO would need to be part of the 135 certificate.

This operation needs to stop. As I said before, take it up the chain of command at your FBO. What should happen is they will probably cut the rental as this would clearly violate any FBO rental agreement and the FBO insurance policy, and also a kind letter to the renter's company explaining the situation (they probably don't know the ins and outs of FARs) and why they will need to find alternate transportation for their employees.

You may have a legal duty to report to higher-ups, because if an accident does happen, the investigation will discover that the operation was conducted illegally, and the investigators will start asking questions at the FBO. When it is determined that an employee of the FBO had knowledge of the operation being conducted, the FBO will no longer be free from liability UNLESS they determine that you had a duty to report to them (you do) which was not followed. At that point, you'll be fired and open to any liability in civil suit and possibly certificate action as well.

I'm not a lawyer, but looking the other way is a bad idea.
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I would not be surprised if he declined to comment, but I'd be curious to hear @midlifeflight's opinion...(hope that's the right tag).

*Sent from phone...pardon goofy auto-corrects*
 
The owner of the airplane will want to know that is airplane is being used illegally. If there is an accident, the insurance is void. Even if the insurance does pay to make the owner whole, it will then subrogate against the pilot.
 
Fly_Unity said:
How is this company legal? http://www.flyshare.com/faq.asp#p.1 Looks like they are holding out to the public to me.
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Well, they don't appear to own or operate any airplanes, or to employ any pilots.... The FAA regulates aircraft and pilots, I don't think they can regulate a website ;)

But what are they doing that is any different from putting a list on an FBO bulletin board? Or a post on Craigslist (the person my post something that breaks an FAR, but craigslist is hardly liable for that)

Pretty common for glider pilots to just "show up" at airports when they are out of town and want to fly, by offering to split the cost of the tow with a PPL glider pilot - pretty rare in fact to do a rental checkout. You could make an argument that is not kosher, but it happens every day.

You can make an argument than any flight with a passenger when the pilot has less than 10,000 hours lacks "common purpose," since you could always argue the pilot's purpose was flight time (whether it was or not). This is a relatively new interpretation - in the past, the pilot simply need to have an interest in the purpose of the flight.
 
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