Private Multi Addon and CSEL Confusion

S

sfgiants13

Well-Known Member
I've tried digging up the FARs to answer this but I couldn't find it so I thought I'd just ask. I talked to an instructor on a few options about getting my commercial and multi ratings and this came up. He said I should get my private multi addon and then do the CSEL and get the CMEL addon afterwards. He said once I satisfy the 10 hours of complex with the private multi training (or if I come up short during the training just get a few more hours of instruction in a multi after the checkride) then I can do all of the CSEL in a 152 or whatnot since the complex requirements were already satisfied with the private multi training. According to http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/archive/index.php/t-40237.html the last post says I can do that as well. I just want to make sure this all sounds right before I start the multi training. I dug up some old threads and saw $1500 at Traverse Air at TVC so I was thinking of going out there to knock out the multi. And if anyone could point me to the FAR that talks about all of this I'd appreciate that as well.
 
Thats what im doing. Except I'm doing CMEL then CSEL for the extra multi PIC. I get to do my CSEL in a 172 where all the other students would have to fly in an Arrow.
 
matthew said:
Thats what im doing. Except I'm doing CMEL then CSEL for the extra multi PIC. I get to do my CSEL in a 172 where all the other students would have to fly in an Arrow.
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Thanks for the reply. I knew that if I did the CMEL first I could do the CSEL in a 172 or whatever but wasn't sure about if a private multi then did the CSEL and then finally added the CMEL. Just to clarify you're doing the CMEL first just for the extra multi PIC? I am reading your post 2 different ways.:pirate: One way is that because you're doing the CMEL first that you get to do it in a 172 and the other way is that you're doing the same thing I did (get private multi then you get to do the CSEL in a 172 without doing the CMEL first).
 
Sorry man, this isn't passing my smell test, though I shouldn't be surprised anymore by how many ways people have found to reinvent this wheel.
I'm in a hotel right now and don't have access to my PTS books, but I can't see how it would be logical that demonstrating complex during a private add-on would remove the need to show complex on Commercial initial.

My opinion is that the multi private add-on is for suckers.

Best thing you could do is to ask the DPE you plan on using.
 
Douglas said:
Sorry man, this isn't passing my smell test, though I shouldn't be surprised anymore by how many ways people have found to reinvent this wheel.
I'm in a hotel right now and don't have access to my PTS books, but I can't see how it would be logical that demonstrating complex during a private add-on would remove the need to show complex on Commercial initial.

My opinion is that the multi private add-on is for suckers.
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It sounded strange to me as well which is why I figured I'd ask you guys. If this is the case then my guess is my best bet is just doing the CSEL as planned and add the multi after.
 
I'm not an instructor anymore, but I think you would have to use a complex airplane for your CSEL even if you did a private multi first. If you did the CMEL first, then you could skip the complex plane for the CSEL add-on.
 
PropDriver said:
I'm not an instructor anymore, but I think you would have to use a complex airplane for your CSEL even if you did a private multi first. If you did the CMEL first, then you could skip the complex plane for the CSEL add-on.
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As per my best understanding of the regs, the above is exactly correct. The PTS even goes into it. You can download the PTS from the FAA. No excuses! :>

-Fox
 
Aircraft and Equipment Required for the Practical Test
The commercial pilot—airplane applicant is required by 14 CFR section
61.45, to provide an airworthy, certificated airplane for use during the
practical test. This section further requires that the aircraft must:

...
4. be a complex airplane furnished by the applicant, unless the
applicant currently holds a commercial pilot certificate with a
single-engine or multiengine class rating as appropriate, for the
performance of takeoffs, landings, and appropriate emergency
procedures. A complex landplane is one having a retractable
landing gear, flaps, and controllable propeller. A complex
seaplane is one having flaps, floats, and controllable propeller.
Airplanes equipped with a full authority digital engine control
(FADEC) system are considered to have a controllable
propeller.
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Page Seven
 
I did the private multi before my csel, but that was so I could log time in a King Air building towards my 250 hours. Other than that, I don't really see any reason to do it. You will still have to demonstrate the complex portion on your practical for the csel.
 
ComplexHiAv8r said:
You can do the CMEL first and then use a non-complex for the CSEL (even a Cirrus). I would recommend Traverse Air :rawk:
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Thanks guys...I knew it sounded too good to be true. Now I have to figure out where he was coming from on this whole thing because he knows the regs pretty well. It's too bad Traverse Air doesn't do initial ratings but once it comes around for ther CMEL addon I'll be sure to head over there. Too bad now I have to wait for a few months (or longer knowing Seattle weather) to do the commercial complex training because the school I was at had someone do a gear up landing the day before I did my first lesson a few months back and it won't be back on the line until the 1st of the year. I was also looking at Pavco at TIW. They have an RG for 132/hr and that doesn't seem all that bad but I'd have to drive an hour each way. Does anyone have any prior experience with them or know someone who does?
 
Might be a bit out of the way but it looks like NAS Whidbey opened their club to the public.

Decent rates: http://www.winfc.com/fleet.php

I flew there in the early 90's when you could get a Cherokee for $28 wet, a C310 for $90.

Only thing that sucked was low level fog (base is 25ft below the town and it would hang around till noon, and when the A-6's were doing FCLP's with 4 in the pattern (They would have us land on Taxiway Bravo, but waiting to cross the active took a lot of time.....Lucky you, the Intruder is gone, unsure how the Growlers and Prowlers are using the pattern). The ATC got a bit pissy as they always called Check gear and flaps when cleared for landing and I responded Flaps Checked, gear Down and Welded....They got over it though
 
jskibo said:
Might be a bit out of the way but it looks like NAS Whidbey opened their club to the public.

Decent rates: http://www.winfc.com/fleet.php

I flew there in the early 90's when you could get a Cherokee for $28 wet, a C310 for $90.

Only thing that sucked was low level fog (base is 25ft below the town and it would hang around till noon, and when the A-6's were doing FCLP's with 4 in the pattern (They would have us land on Taxiway Bravo, but waiting to cross the active took a lot of time.....Lucky you, the Intruder is gone, unsure how the Growlers and Prowlers are using the pattern). The ATC got a bit pissy as they always called Check gear and flaps when cleared for landing and I responded Flaps Checked, gear Down and Welded....They got over it though
Click to expand...

Oh wow thanks for that link! It is a 1.5 hour drive but the hourly cost is just over half of what I would pay elsewhere. Figure 3/4 tank of gas for a roundtrip and it's still a hell of a lot cheaper. $100 for an arrow and $30 instruction is a pretty good deal.
 
ComplexHiAv8r said:
Talk to Traverse Air what you need to do for initial CMEL. Cost will go up but he will work with you.
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I will thanks for the heads up. Either way it looks like I'll head over there at some point whether it be for the initial CMEL or addon if I decide to make the drive to Whidbey and do the multi in the summer.
 
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