Private/Instrument as initial

JLF

Well-Known Member
Not that I've heard of. I've seen Instrument/Commercial courses on the 141 side...
 

bdhill1979

Gone West
never heard of one.

with the requirements for the IR I cannot imagine it would even be reasonable (at least under 61)

I really would not want to supervise 50 hours of solo XC
 

JustinA

Well-Known Member
At MTSU, Middle TN State University, they teach private/instrument together. It is called FITS. I hear they are thinking about doing away with it because it is very hard on the students. Your trying to teach a student pilot holding entries and he cant even fly the airplane yet. It also makes for a very long checkride. You can google FITS to find more about it if you would like.
 

MidlifeFlyer

Well-Known Member
At MTSU, Middle TN State University, they teach private/instrument together. It is called FITS. I hear they are thinking about doing away with it because it is very hard on the students. Your trying to teach a student pilot holding entries and he cant even fly the airplane yet. It also makes for a very long checkride. You can google FITS to find more about it if you would like.
I thought someone would mention this.

There is such a thing. It's an outgrowth of the FITS - "FAA-Industry Training Standards." It's a joint effort between the FAA and aircraft manufacturers to take a second look at flight training in technically advanced aircraft (like G1000-equipt planes) where learning the system is a big deal and the lines between what you need to know for VFR amd IFR are a bit blurred.

The site is http://www.faa.gov/education_research/training/fits/
 

sdfcvoh

This is my Custom Title
I read the article and found it interesting. How has the program been working? Are the students having a hard time, or do they seem to adjust well?
Having only begun seeing how it works "from the inside", I've got to say that doing the maneuvers first in the AATD works incredibly well. We can really work on them in the AATD without any of the other factors normally overwhelming new PTs in a real airplane. Hitting "pause" and talking about something that is happening is also priceless.

From the safety aspect, our PPL students can log spin training without spending all the cash at a aerobatic school. That's one of the many things we can do in the AATD which just can't be done under normal circumstances elsewhere. I would highly recommend this to anyone in the area who would like to come in for the experience.

Teaching landing to new PTs specifically is great. We can start at any part of the pattern (usually turning final) and just pause/reset right away at wheels down. The other day I helped a PT practice 20 landings in the sim with 0.7 time charged. I think that is priceless without any of the other stressors you'd have in the pattern. When we step into the airplane to do it for real, they already have a mental picture of what it will be like.
 

Attachments

mooneyguy

been around forever
http://www.overtheairwaves.com the guy who writes this newsletter I believe teaches PPL/IR together. It is an interesting concept. I emailed him asking how to acquire a syllabus, never heard back from him. Maybe you can give it a shot and see if you get an answer.
 

RynoB

That One Guy
Teaching landing to new PTs specifically is great. We can start at any part of the pattern (usually turning final) and just pause/reset right away at wheels down. The other day I helped a PT practice 20 landings in the sim with 0.7 time charged. I think that is priceless without any of the other stressors you'd have in the pattern. When we step into the airplane to do it for real, they already have a mental picture of what it will be like.
Thanks for the feedback. So, the students seem to transition well from landing the sim to the real thing? I figured it might cause some problems. I've worked in a handful of full-motion sims as both student and instructor. They are wonderful tools, but I thought they were somewhat limited when it came to takeoffs and landings; especially in crosswind conditions.
 

sdfcvoh

This is my Custom Title
Thanks for the feedback. So, the students seem to transition well from landing the sim to the real thing? I figured it might cause some problems. I've worked in a handful of full-motion sims as both student and instructor. They are wonderful tools, but I thought they were somewhat limited when it came to takeoffs and landings; especially in crosswind conditions.
I think that (other than technique) the biggest thing the sim teaches is the visual. Without a better way to explain it, the oddest thing we ask new pilots to do is push the nose of the plane down toward the earth....after doing it in the sim repeatedly it seems that new students have already stepped past that initial scare.

As you know, everything in the sim is different in real life. But I think the pros well outweigh the cons. And thats the news from Lake Woebegone. :)
 

Nihon_Ni

Well-Known Member
I can always tell guys who show up to their first flight having spent time in MSFS. First off, they won't look outside. They spend their time looking at the instruments. MSFS screen is >50% instrument panel, so that gets their attention. Secondly, they tend to land flat instead of in a flare. Again it goes back to the display screen. If you flare MSFS correctly, you can't see the runway any more.

However, even though the law of primacy prevails, I think these two habits are easy to break with a large piece of paper taped over the 6 pack for a flight or two, and students are better pilots for the effort. I generally tell my students to play with MSFS, but don't land it until after they solo.
 

sdfcvoh

This is my Custom Title
I can always tell guys who show up to their first flight having spent time in MSFS. First off, they won't look outside. They spend their time looking at the instruments.....

Easily solved when they puke after getting airsick b/c they didn't listen to us. In AZ with 110˚F in wicked updrafts!!

Actually the MSFS (from home) creates that problem - I've experienced that myself (because it was me) although there was never any sickness. I let students know ahead of time that they WILL get sick if they stare at the instruments.

In the AATD we have a real cockpit and a 10'x10' screen outside. A whole bunch different than regular MSFS. We're able to teach PTs how to use visual references in order to fly with it.
 
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