Primary Checkride Failures haunting me after 2700 hours ...

Re: Primary Checkride Failures haunting me after 2700 hours

PhilosopherPilot said:
No, because the data is de-identified. We cannot link up the hiring/training records with ASAP data for that reason.
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We've been able to accomplish this while still honoring the provisions of our MOU, and the results are more interesting than whether or not a 500-hour guy has better attendance than a 3,000-hour guy.
 
C150J said:
We've been able to accomplish this while still honoring the provisions of our MOU, and the results are more interesting than whether or not a 500-hour guy has better attendance than a 3,000-hour guy.
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I'll see what we can do about that. At the very least, maybe we can ask training history questions.
 
Re: Primary Checkride Failures haunting me after 2700 hours

PhilosopherPilot said:
I'll see what we can do about that. At the very least, maybe we can ask training history questions.
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I'd encourage you to look into it. It's obviously only for trending, but it might indicate that success in the sim and success on the line aren't as hand-in-hand as they should be (a whole 'nother can of worms!).

There are so many facets to this conversation that I've migrated to a case-by-case basis approach. HR will invariably choose people who are statistically reliable, offer the least PERCEIVED liability (failed check rides, which in reality have no correlation to accidents/incidents), and can pass initial training. I'm looking for the person who has high "monitor/cross-check," a team-driven personality, and the ability to be diplomatically assertive should he/she see something wrong. In other words, a sharp pilot that's human, realizes everyone makes mistakes, and is humble enough to admit to their own.

I also want to reiterate the fact that I'd support these "3 strikes and you're out" policies if primary training was consistent and fair. However, we still live in a world of 90-day programs, 141 self-examining authority, and part 61... I'm not bashing ANY of those tracks, but pointing out how VASTLY, VASTLY different a busted ride can be in each setting (or actual curriculum, for that matter).

Sorry to all of those that are on the outside thanks to this draconian practice. Things will change.
 
Re: Primary Checkride Failures haunting me after 2700 hours

SIUav8er said:
Thats nice. If this was really the case, then why dont the majors hire 500 hour wonders with no private pilot checkride busts? hmmm?
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Because my hair is insufficiently gray to project the image mainline passengers demand, of course.
 
Re: Primary Checkride Failures haunting me after 2700 hours

I'm not following. I'm not an airline guy.
PhilosopherPilot said:
Interestingly, one major will NOT interview pilots with more than 4000 hours 121 PIC time because the data shows that they are bad investments as well. (They have bad habits, etc. etc.)
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So essentially any pilot on their own property with greater than 4,000 hours is a bad investment equipped with bad habits?

Plus you said that the 500 hour (jet course) FO is the best applicant. I'm only an observer but it seems like all the regional captains here have been rallying against the 500 hr FO because they say they do not make good FOs.
 
Re: Primary Checkride Failures haunting me after 2700 hours

Douglas said:
Plus you said that the 500 hour (jet course) FO is the best applicant. I'm only an observer but it seems like all the regional captains here have been rallying against the 500 hr FO because they say they do not make good FOs.
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He's saying that they're the best at getting through training, which is why airlines would like them.
 
Douglas said:
I'm not following. I'm not an airline guy.


So essentially any pilot on their own property with greater than 4,000 hours is a bad investment equipped with bad habits?
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No. The ones they hire with less than 4000 pic are still malleable, and can be made to fit into their culture.
 
Re: Primary Checkride Failures haunting me after 2700 hours

It's a shame that they feel that way....it has been very difficult to move on from a regional for the past 2 or 3 years given the effects of Age 65. Therefore many of us have accumulated far more 121 PIC at "non-career" carriers than we ever really wanted....holding failed checkrides against somebody, ok, but holding large amount of PIC time against them seems counterintuitive. Would a downgrade look better? hahaha.
 
Re: Primary Checkride Failures haunting me after 2700 hours

I think its funny how there is this much fight for making 12,000 a year at places like Colgan, when you can pick up a Citation gig making 6 times as much and they dont give a crap how many checkrides you fail. It amazes me how people continue to regard regionals as this high and mighty being when people get hired with 135 time and 91 corporate time...
 
Re: Primary Checkride Failures haunting me after 2700 hours

Inverted said:
I think its funny how there is this much fight for making 12,000 a year at places like Colgan, when you can pick up a Citation gig making 6 times as much and they dont give a crap how many checkrides you fail. It amazes me how people continue to regard regionals as this high and mighty being when people get hired with 135 time and 91 corporate time...
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shhhhh
 
Re: Primary Checkride Failures haunting me after 2700 hours

Inverted said:
I think its funny how there is this much fight for making 12,000 a year at places like Colgan, when you can pick up a Citation gig making 6 times as much and they dont give a crap how many checkrides you fail. It amazes me how people continue to regard regionals as this high and mighty being when people get hired with 135 time and 91 corporate time...
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I totally agree with you, and is the reason I never tried getting on one before. I kinda just wanted to try the 121 thing and see how it is thats all. I'm going to stick with my original thoughts and stick with the Part 91/135 Corporate and Charter. I actually may have a shot at getting a Citation Corporate job in a few months :).

Thanks for everyones responses and some of the PM's I've gotten about this.

Nick
 
Re: Primary Checkride Failures haunting me after 2700 hours

Inverted said:
I think its funny how there is this much fight for making 12,000 a year at places like Colgan, when you can pick up a Citation gig making 6 times as much and they dont give a crap how many checkrides you fail. It amazes me how people continue to regard regionals as this high and mighty being when people get hired with 135 time and 91 corporate time...
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Dont give away the secret!

121 is the end all be all, there is nothing better. If you know whats good for you go apply to great lakes/commutair/republic/gojet. In the end, they're all the same anyway.
 
Re: Primary Checkride Failures haunting me after 2700 hours

Alchemy said:
It's a shame that they feel that way....it has been very difficult to move on from a regional for the past 2 or 3 years given the effects of Age 65. Therefore many of us have accumulated far more 121 PIC at "non-career" carriers than we ever really wanted....holding failed checkrides against somebody, ok, but holding large amount of PIC time against them seems counterintuitive. Would a downgrade look better? hahaha.
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Agreed. It is counterintuitive. I was shocked when I learned that. Like I said, in 3 years, all of this is moot. :)
 
Re: Primary Checkride Failures haunting me after 2700 hours

This is a shame. Performing a task a single time is not indicative of competency. For that matter, failing it once is not an indicator of incompetence. To really demonstrate that a person can do a task, it must be performed several times consecutively, under varying conditions. Only then can you say someone has truly learned the skill. I know a checkride like that would be long, and expensive, but it seems better than busting it because you failed one time to do a task.
 
Re: Primary Checkride Failures haunting me after 2700 hours

Inverted said:
I think its funny how there is this much fight for making 12,000 a year at places like Colgan, when you can pick up a Citation gig making 6 times as much and they dont give a crap how many checkrides you fail. It amazes me how people continue to regard regionals as this high and mighty being when people get hired with 135 time and 91 corporate time...
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Well from my experience the 135 world sucks more than Colgan. No schedule, 24/7 on call. Flying airplanes that break after every flight, piss poor wages, no benefits, 2-3 months late on person credit card expenses, company forcing us to either sleep in the FBO or share a room, having to drive up to 8 hours back home after a full days of work because the company doesn't want to reposition the plane, shall I continue? Although i wouldn't go to Colgan a few guys from my company did, and are much happier.

I know I probably worked for the worst 135 company in existence, there's just such a bad taste in my mouth for 135 that any 121 gig with a schedule is cake to me. I would love to get my 5000 hours needed then go back to 91. That was truly heaven with an energy Corp.
 
Re: Primary Checkride Failures haunting me after 2700 hours

How does benefits, home every night sound, home every night, pay more than first year 121 pay, and turbine PIC sound? There are some companies out there that provide these things. They will also not require you to be an astronaut to apply there. They're out there!
 
Re: Primary Checkride Failures haunting me after 2700 hours

Michael Vick's historic night!! now look at it this way, 3 years ago everyone said this guy was DONE!! he learned from his mistakes, didn’t give up on his dreams, and look at him now. Tonight he probably had the best QB performance iv ever seen. I think when you learn from your mistakes it really makes you better at what you do, makes you appreciate success a lot more, and pushed you to work even harder.
 
Re: Primary Checkride Failures haunting me after 2700 hours

HJB said:
Michael Vick's historic night!! now look at it this way, 3 years ago everyone said this guy was DONE!! he learned from his mistakes, didn’t give up on his dreams, and look at him now. Tonight he probably had the best QB performance iv ever seen. I think when you learn from your mistakes it really makes you better at what you do, makes you appreciate success a lot more, and pushed you to work even harder.
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Completely agree. As long as there is a pattern of "rehabilitation" via more flight experience, more passed checkrides, etc., it shouldn't be an issue even if the busts were legitimate at the time.
 
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