OK hello everyone I have a question. My previous employer a dirt bag operation based in Dallas is now sending out bad Pria reports in an effort to try and hurt retaliate and just outright lie on pilots that leave. I am trying to move on to a regional and this company sent out a bad pria on me Essentially saying I failed my checkride. They even had the gall to send me a copy of the lies they told this regional about me. The regional wrote me back asking me to explain this. Needless to say I am quite upset about this and may have my CJO revoked as a result of this crap. Aside from suing the hell out of this company, is there anything else I can do? How do regionals handle this? Any help is appreciated. (Regional in question is Western based)
Previous employer Pria abuse
- Thread starter M5000
- Start date
CoffeeIcePapers
Well-Hung Member
Did you fail a checkride? If not, they're falsifying a Federal document. I'd call the FAA hotline and get a lawyer ASAP.
Space Monkey
Arbitrariness replaces reason with authority.
Even if half of what you are saying is legitimately true, do like @CoffeeIcePapers just said.
Minuteman
“Dongola”
If you failed a checkride, that seems relevant to include in a PRIA inquiry. If not, then you didn't fail a checkride.
I do not know specifically what was objectionable, but here is the guidance from AC120-68G about what should be reported:
4.5.2.1 seems like it could be a "catchall", especially if someone wanted to make an issue if something seemingly banal. For example, "our documented procedure is to operate a rotary knob only with the thumb and index finger simultaneously; this pilot used a different technique." Would a checkride be ended over that? Hopefully not.
Your previous employer is required to send you a copy of what they supplied to the inquiring company within 20 days of the request,
Presumably you have your own training records and documentation, so that's good. It seems like log book entries or other dated paperwork for the checkrides would be supportive. E.g., maybe you didn't log more time at recurrent than is typical.
Be prepared and supplied to tell a satisfactory narrative about the events in the report with supporting evidence. If there are portions of the PRIA report that the hiring airline would read and agree with (possibly contrary to your interpretation), be prepared to integrate with that fact.
Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
Get an attorney, period.
You mentioned pilots, plural. Be prepared to provide names to your attorney.
The dirty assistant chief said I failed my oral which I passed he then tried failing me on a procedure I taught to other pilots a power plant emergency. Long story short I discontinued the checkride and complained to the company v.p. He said I could go up with the FAA to resolve this. While I waited for 2 weeks for the FAA to have an opening he calls me back in refuses to have me go up with the FAA and tries to make me go up with this same guy. I refuse and they terminate me for incompetence, this after working for them for close to 6 years And never failed a checkride in my entire history with this company until this • comes along. I was a Captain and IOE check airman.
TUCKnTRUCK
That guy
What check
ride was this for?
What checkride were you taking?
Your giving grammar lessons at a time like this? Seriously?
But yes I did show proof along with copying and sent my training records to the HR department at said regional. I provided proof that the records were clearly altered.
Annual Captain recurrent.
TUCKnTRUCK
That guy
I’ll be 100% honest. If I am reviewing this for the regional which hired you, and your response is written the same way that the original post is, I would terminate the hiring process. The way it reads just feels like maybe there was an issue and you’re trying to deny it. I would make sure that your response is not similarly vague, or combative and Is supported by whatever evidence you have.
That being said, on a .293/297 if the ride is discontinued there”should” be notification of discontinuance even though the event isn’t a certification type event. Make sure you clearly document when the check ride started, the beginning of the oral. It’s important to remember that oral questioning may continue in a practical test if they feel that an applicant hasn’t demonstrated something correctly.
Part of your problem in this is going to be explaining the termination and then trying to show that the company was still using pria as retaliation. If you were terminated, unless you really really pissed them off, there doesn’t seem to be as much motivation to forge or falsify records for PRIA. From a company perspective, all that does is open them up to legal action. Had you walked off a trip mid trip and been like “see ya, got a job at Mesa” and put them in a bind, then yes retaliating makes more sense. The way this reads, it seems like the check airman didn’t think you satisfactorily passed one of the elements of your ride. You disagreed and elected to stop the ride. It’s important to note that electing to discontinue after a point at which a check airman has informed you of a failed element is still a bust. Along the lines of “you can’t fire me because I quit”. I’ve never been at a 135 shop where the pilot gets to choose who they do a check ride with, and, in the event of a discontinuance unless the original examiner is not able to do the ride, you go back with them - otherwise you start over.
If they are falsifying records, then an attorney is the answer.
I’m not saying that’s how it happened, but based off the short version above, that’s kind of how it reads.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That being said, on a .293/297 if the ride is discontinued there”should” be notification of discontinuance even though the event isn’t a certification type event. Make sure you clearly document when the check ride started, the beginning of the oral. It’s important to remember that oral questioning may continue in a practical test if they feel that an applicant hasn’t demonstrated something correctly.
Part of your problem in this is going to be explaining the termination and then trying to show that the company was still using pria as retaliation. If you were terminated, unless you really really pissed them off, there doesn’t seem to be as much motivation to forge or falsify records for PRIA. From a company perspective, all that does is open them up to legal action. Had you walked off a trip mid trip and been like “see ya, got a job at Mesa” and put them in a bind, then yes retaliating makes more sense. The way this reads, it seems like the check airman didn’t think you satisfactorily passed one of the elements of your ride. You disagreed and elected to stop the ride. It’s important to note that electing to discontinue after a point at which a check airman has informed you of a failed element is still a bust. Along the lines of “you can’t fire me because I quit”. I’ve never been at a 135 shop where the pilot gets to choose who they do a check ride with, and, in the event of a discontinuance unless the original examiner is not able to do the ride, you go back with them - otherwise you start over.
If they are falsifying records, then an attorney is the answer.
I’m not saying that’s how it happened, but based off the short version above, that’s kind of how it reads.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes, don't take it personal.
Then don't worry. If you have proof and the regional still doesn't hire you, then you probably don't want to work there.
Thanks for your reply tuck, but this new assistant chief was hired and within 4 short months terminated every minority pilot there for incompetence. The 135 operator is Martinaire. I was a IOE line check airman and signed off over 15 pilots. Never lost a 1. When they hired the new assistant chief besides him being a all around butthole, he did have it in for minority pilots and we all were gotten rid of.
We are pursuing EEOC action against them. But as I spoke with other pilots Martinaire made sure if you complained to the FAA about their maintenance or getting asked to fly over allowable duty they not only would terminate your employment over a small trivial matter but made sure to give a person a bad pria.
I have contacted an attorney to look into this in my behalf. Tuck what I was failed on I taught other pilots that same maneuver. Tell me what do you do with an engine fire do you fly a pattern to get down like this • wanted me to do or do you steep spiral down and get on the runway ASAP?
No, I’ll never accept responsibility for something I did right and taught others to do.
if your in charge of hiring if I were you, I would consider that these things happen to pilots and could you be allowing yourself to be manipulated into doing exactly what that company wants to do-make it impossible for that pilot to move on? I would at the very least allow that pilot the chance to explain themselves rather than dismiss them as a bad or attitude or unsafe. I wouldn’t allow places like Martinaire or Boutique to determine my hiring decisions especially when pilots are complaining about both places. If they have proof to counter what the company says about them-like I do and turned it over to the new company great!
But let them defend themselves at least. They deserve it.
dustoff17
Still trying to reach the Top Shelf
ALL of the following is based on the information in this discussion:
Having been a Captain for 6 YEARS and a trainer, one would think that you would have a firm grasp on the specific procedures required during an evaluation. If you were teaching contrary to their procedures, AND you were the source of information/techniques used by the other pilots fired, then YOU might be the problem After all.
If all of the others fired performed your engine fire procedure and not the Company’s (or the checklists) then I would have to side with The Company. At the very minimum “Cooperate and Graduate“ should have been a priority to you and others; do what they want when they have a grade card in their hands. Deviate from the procedure during an emergency only IF and AS THE EMERGENCY DICTATES…..but you can’t be teaching Deviations and not expect a return!
Of course I may have misunderstood what you posted……
Having been a Captain for 6 YEARS and a trainer, one would think that you would have a firm grasp on the specific procedures required during an evaluation. If you were teaching contrary to their procedures, AND you were the source of information/techniques used by the other pilots fired, then YOU might be the problem After all.
If all of the others fired performed your engine fire procedure and not the Company’s (or the checklists) then I would have to side with The Company. At the very minimum “Cooperate and Graduate“ should have been a priority to you and others; do what they want when they have a grade card in their hands. Deviate from the procedure during an emergency only IF and AS THE EMERGENCY DICTATES…..but you can’t be teaching Deviations and not expect a return!
Of course I may have misunderstood what you posted……
