Preflight gotchas

JordanD said:
Any fellow CFIs care to share their techniques to make sure students are doing a thorough enough preflight? I'm kind of short on ideas. So far all I've pulled are hiding documents and moving the fuel selector. We don't have pullable circuit breakers so any of that is out. Looking for ideas but nothing that's going to get me killed if I forget!
Click to expand...

Alternate Static switches are a good one, leave some sticky notes in places that wouldn't be obvious if you weren't paying attention, what kind of airplane are you flying that you don't have pullable CBs?
 
ppragman said:
Alternate Static switches are a good one, leave some sticky notes in places that wouldn't be obvious if you weren't paying attention, what kind of airplane are you flying that you don't have pullable CBs?
Click to expand...
2001 172. The only one that you can really pull is the autopilot. Did a little research and found apparently Cessna doesn't want people pulling breakers. There's no place to grab on the breaker to pull it out.
 
Don't do anything that if you forget will make it unairworthy. I don't try to trick my students because they may find me condescending or arrogant and the benefit of them finding it is not worth degrading their view/trust of you, if you slam them for missing it. Every once and a while quiz them on a preflight, how would you like to be ramp checked every flight?
 
I don't do this. If I were to forget something I did, things could turn out bad. I may do something like put the airworthiness certificate at the back of the stack of documents and see if they remember it has to be visible or something else along these lines that doesn't involve tampering with the airplane.
 
Again, I'm not doing it to everyone or brand new students. But when I notice they are reading the checklist items as if they've done them and all they are doing is a quick literal walk around and kicking the tires, that's a HUGE problem in my mind. Especially if I am reminding them over and over to take their time and follow the procedure.
 
JordanD said:
Again, I'm not doing it to everyone or brand new students. But when I notice they are reading the checklist items as if they've done them and all they are doing is a quick literal walk around and kicking the tires, that's a HUGE problem in my mind. Especially if I am reminding them over and over to take their time and follow the procedure.
Click to expand...
I teach the preflight as a flow you do everytime with specific things you check each time with the checklist used to verify you did it .Imo, the read and do checklist method for a preflight that is widely taught is poor technique. It gets them buried in a sea of words and has the potential to make them lose the big picture- I prefer for them to have an understanding of what it is they are looking for and have their eyes moving around the airplane rather than trying to remember where they are on an overkill 9 page checklist that includes stuff like "get atis" and "request taxi" or even "key-turn to start engine". I'm not advocating ditching the checklist, I just think it should be used as a checklist rather than a do list.
 
A150K said:
I teach the preflight as a flow you do everytime with specific things you check each time with the checklist used to verify you did it .Imo, the read and do checklist method for a preflight that is widely taught is poor technique. It gets them buried in a sea of words and has the potential to make them lose the big picture- I prefer for them to have an understanding of what it is they are looking for and have their eyes moving around the airplane rather than trying to remember where they are on an overkill 9 page checklist that includes stuff like "get atis" and "request taxi" or even "key-turn to start engine". I'm not advocating ditching the checklist, I just think it should be used as a checklist rather than a do list.
Click to expand...
I teach do and verify. Gas, oil (stuff that will get you killed the quickest), then a flow pattern for the rest. But some people are screwing up the flow AND "verifying" and still missing really important things.
 
A150K said:
I teach the preflight as a flow you do everytime with specific things you check each time with the checklist used to verify you did it .Imo, the read and do checklist method for a preflight that is widely taught is poor technique. It gets them buried in a sea of words and has the potential to make them lose the big picture- I prefer for them to have an understanding of what it is they are looking for and have their eyes moving around the airplane rather than trying to remember where they are on an overkill 9 page checklist that includes stuff like "get atis" and "request taxi" or even "key-turn to start engine". I'm not advocating ditching the checklist, I just think it should be used as a checklist rather than a do list.
Click to expand...

This is how I teach it. A flow and verify with the written. I do it in 2 parts usually though. Inside flow then checklist, outside flow then checklist. In our Cessna 172R with the G1000, there is a lot more to check inside than most light piston singles. With the Citabria, the airplane is so basic I do an entire flow start to finish, then verify with the written. By verify the written, I mean make sure I read line by line instead of skimming the checklist like I have seen students try to do...

In fact I teach all the procedures at our school like that. Flow then verify.

What kills me is the postflight.... Students blow it off. They know they've had an amazing flight. So they shrug off the post flight. I get on students when I go back and check their work and they haven't tied down the plane all the way, forgot the chocks, or didn't put the cowl plugs and pitot tube cover on etc.

One student who was particularly bad about that, I got on him a few times about it. One flight late at night before I got out, I said "I trust you're going to get everything this time since I've been hounding you about it the last few flights." The NEXT morning I get an email from one of the team leaders that my student left the tie downs off and the chock was not on both sides of the tire... After that I had a talk with my student, and it was never a problem after that. It's frustrating when it takes that much for a student to understand the importance of making sure an airplane stays airworthy from preflight to postlight... :bang:

I generally only "test" a student or check a student's preflight work in depth if it's been a while since they've had anything unusual come up in reality, or they are consistently not following the procedures and missing things.
 
JordanD said:
I teach do and verify. Gas, oil (stuff that will get you killed the quickest), then a flow pattern for the rest. AND "verifying" and still missing really important things.
Click to expand...

I see. This could be a result of them trying to rush it....maybe have a talk with them aabout how rushing things in aviation can get you killed very fast? If that fails to work, beat them profusely with the towbar until they promise to slow down.
 
TwoTwoLeft said:
The who idea with teaching the preflight is to get the student to actually notice things. If you have them counting the trees, they my never see the forest fire.
Click to expand...
This is true. I have a story about something that happened to me about 2 years ago regarding seeing the big picture that I am going topost later when I have some time.
 
For what it's worth, my student seemed to be following the proper flow and checking everything while I watched from afar.
 
I just walk up, make sure its untied from 20 feet, put my headset in, sit down, surf JC till they're done.
 
Once my students can show me they know how to preflight, I usually let them do it unsupervised while I do other stuff, then I'll check the killer items like fuel and oil just to make sure we're covered.
 
JordanD said:
2001 172. The only one that you can really pull is the autopilot. Did a little research and found apparently Cessna doesn't want people pulling breakers. There's no place to grab on the breaker to pull it out.
Click to expand...
This is so effing stupid by the way. I hate breakers I can't pull.
 
I don't know if this would help in your situation but I was taught to preflight like the last thing you want to do today is fly, so you look for the most insignificant thing wrong to tell the CFI in hopes of it making the flight not possible for today.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
JustinS said:
What kills me is the postflight.... Students blow it off. They know they've had an amazing flight. So they shrug off the post flight. I get on students when I go back and check their work and they haven't tied down the plane all the way, forgot the chocks, or didn't put the cowl plugs and pitot tube cover on etc.
Click to expand...
That'll get you a beat down in the real world. Nobody likes getting to an airplane in the morning and finding bald tires, burned out lights, low on oil, seat belts thrown everywhere, garbage in seat back pockets, seat installation logs not complete, seats wet because the door was left cracked...
 
A couple of nuts or screws that are about the size that would come out of an airplane tossed on the ground under the cowling or horizontal stabilizer should raise a question or two. For paperwork, a sticky note saying "Show me to your instructor" at the weight and balance sheet in the POH should do the same.
 
OregonTrail said:
I don't try to trick my students because they may find me condescending or arrogant and the benefit of them finding it is not worth degrading their view/trust of you,
Click to expand...
I try to have a relationship with my students that is a little less fragile than that.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top