PPL in a Tailwheel?
- Thread starter TallFlyer
- Start date
Brendan
New Member
I say go for it. I am unfamiliar with tailwheel aircraft, but in a sense it seems like learning to drive a car that is a stick verses learning to drive in an automatic. Harder at first, but then the transition to other forms becomes easier. Good luck, and let us know how it goes.
I wouldn't say it is going to be any harder.
Better, and different maybe a little, but not harder.
People that learn from 0 time in tailwheel do not take longer to get a license.
I'd say it may even be easier in some aspects. You always know the landing attitude in a tailwheel plane, so the flare is less of a problem (where it can be common for nosedragger students to not flare enough when learning). Nice to know how to use rudders from the beginning too.
Better, and different maybe a little, but not harder.
People that learn from 0 time in tailwheel do not take longer to get a license.
I'd say it may even be easier in some aspects. You always know the landing attitude in a tailwheel plane, so the flare is less of a problem (where it can be common for nosedragger students to not flare enough when learning). Nice to know how to use rudders from the beginning too.
hammer
New Member
Well .... I have to disagree. In fact I'll disagree strongly. Don't do your PPL in a tailwheel. Yeah, it'll be easier to transition later into a tricycle gear airplane but there's no reason for that to be an objective goal for the first time you learn to fly. While the maneuvers may be slightly easier in a tailwheel like a Citabria because the airplane controls smoother, the landings and take-offs will be much more of a challenge. A pre-private WILL struggle with the shorts and softs in a tailwheel (remember, no flaps in a tailwheel). Not to mention the very minimal instrument panel (usually no attitude indictor or heading indicator) The tailwheels are a lot of fun to fly but think about it, there's gotta be a reason that 99%+ of pilots train in a tricycle gear airplane. Barring any real good reason (e.g. you own a Citabria), tailwheels are no longer a logical airplane to learn how to become a pilot in.
Alchemy
Well-Known Member
One good reason to train in a taildragger is that it could be cheaper. On the other hand, taxi, takeoffs, and landings will be more difficult and the instrumentation in most primary training type taildraggers is limited. Not having flaps shouldn't be a problem (you'll do a lot of forward slips), and many tailwheel airplanes do have flaps, for instance the stinson 108 and cessna 140.
I started tailwheel training after I was already a CFI and didn't find it too diffucult. Mastering three point landings was the hardest part for me, but I think it's perfectly okay to earn your private in a taildragger. 50 years ago, that's the way almost everyone did it.
I started tailwheel training after I was already a CFI and didn't find it too diffucult. Mastering three point landings was the hardest part for me, but I think it's perfectly okay to earn your private in a taildragger. 50 years ago, that's the way almost everyone did it.
USMCmech
Well-Known Member
Absolutly get your PPL in a taildragger if you can! It might take you an extra hour or two. But it will teach you to use that strange thing on the back of the airplane. I'm told it's called a "rudder"?
99% of pilots trained on tricycle gear airplanes never learn to use it properly (myself included). Also most taildraggers haven't had all thier bad habits enginered out. You learn to correct for less than perfect handling.
I read an article in Private Pilot (I think) about a guy who instructs in a Pitts S2C. He said "Get yor PPL in a Cessna, then come here and learn to fly." He had students with all sorts of experience levels come for areobatic trainig. He said "the only diffrence between an airline pilot with 2,000 hrs and a guy who just got his liscense is confidence, and then the ATP gets real humble after about an hour." He refered to the C-172 as being designed for "the lowest common denominator" of pilots.
Actually if I could do it all over again, I would get my glider liscense even before I got my power ticket. I went for a ride in one and realized how ham fisted I was, gliders will teach you the art of flying. It's cheaper too!
I read an article in Private Pilot (I think) about a guy who instructs in a Pitts S2C. He said "Get yor PPL in a Cessna, then come here and learn to fly." He had students with all sorts of experience levels come for areobatic trainig. He said "the only diffrence between an airline pilot with 2,000 hrs and a guy who just got his liscense is confidence, and then the ATP gets real humble after about an hour." He refered to the C-172 as being designed for "the lowest common denominator" of pilots.
Actually if I could do it all over again, I would get my glider liscense even before I got my power ticket. I went for a ride in one and realized how ham fisted I was, gliders will teach you the art of flying. It's cheaper too!
montanapilot
Well-Known Member
absolutely go for a tailwheel, I have a buddy back in MT that bought a Taylorcraft and is getting his Private in it.
He just does the simulated instrument in a 150 and will do his checkride in a 150. But thats only cause his instrumentation is so limited in the T-craft.
He just does the simulated instrument in a 150 and will do his checkride in a 150. But thats only cause his instrumentation is so limited in the T-craft.
mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
A pre-private WILL struggle with the shorts and softs in a tailwheel (remember, no flaps in a tailwheel).
[/ QUOTE ]
A tailwheel plane can't have flaps??
A pre-private WILL struggle with the shorts and softs in a tailwheel (remember, no flaps in a tailwheel).
[/ QUOTE ]
A tailwheel plane can't have flaps??
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A pre-private WILL struggle with the shorts and softs in a tailwheel (remember, no flaps in a tailwheel).
[/ QUOTE ]
A tailwheel plane can't have flaps??
[/ QUOTE ]
Sure there is. The old O-1 Birddog that I have a few hours in, had a 60 degree flaps position, making short-field landings fairly easy.
[ QUOTE ]
A pre-private WILL struggle with the shorts and softs in a tailwheel (remember, no flaps in a tailwheel).
[/ QUOTE ]
A tailwheel plane can't have flaps??
[/ QUOTE ]
Sure there is. The old O-1 Birddog that I have a few hours in, had a 60 degree flaps position, making short-field landings fairly easy.
mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A pre-private WILL struggle with the shorts and softs in a tailwheel (remember, no flaps in a tailwheel).
[/ QUOTE ]
A tailwheel plane can't have flaps??
[/ QUOTE ]
Sure there is . . .
[/ QUOTE ]
Bad attempt at being facetious. . .
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A pre-private WILL struggle with the shorts and softs in a tailwheel (remember, no flaps in a tailwheel).
[/ QUOTE ]
A tailwheel plane can't have flaps??
[/ QUOTE ]
Sure there is . . .
[/ QUOTE ]
Bad attempt at being facetious. . .
montanapilot
Well-Known Member
ok so on a Maule why is there a -7 flap position. What does putting the flaps up do for you?
plus tailwheels are just plain sweet! try doing this in a nosewheel
plus tailwheels are just plain sweet! try doing this in a nosewheel
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A pre-private WILL struggle with the shorts and softs in a tailwheel (remember, no flaps in a tailwheel).
[/ QUOTE ]
A tailwheel plane can't have flaps??
[/ QUOTE ]
Sure there is . . .
[/ QUOTE ]
Bad attemp at being facetious. . .
[/ QUOTE ]
Guess I'm not Captain Obvious today....
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A pre-private WILL struggle with the shorts and softs in a tailwheel (remember, no flaps in a tailwheel).
[/ QUOTE ]
A tailwheel plane can't have flaps??
[/ QUOTE ]
Sure there is . . .
[/ QUOTE ]
Bad attemp at being facetious. . .
[/ QUOTE ]
Guess I'm not Captain Obvious today....
mtsu_av8er
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Guess I'm not Captain Obvious today....
[/ QUOTE ]
It's O-Dark Thirty, so it's alright...
Guess I'm not Captain Obvious today....
[/ QUOTE ]
It's O-Dark Thirty, so it's alright...
flyover
New Member
[ QUOTE ]
Well .... I have to disagree. In fact I'll disagree strongly. Don't do your PPL in a tailwheel. Yeah, it'll be easier to transition later into a tricycle gear airplane but there's no reason for that to be an objective goal for the first time you learn to fly. While the maneuvers may be slightly easier in a tailwheel like a Citabria because the airplane controls smoother, the landings and take-offs will be much more of a challenge. A pre-private WILL struggle with the shorts and softs in a tailwheel (remember, no flaps in a tailwheel). Not to mention the very minimal instrument panel (usually no attitude indictor or heading indicator) The tailwheels are a lot of fun to fly but think about it, there's gotta be a reason that 99%+ of pilots train in a tricycle gear airplane. Barring any real good reason (e.g. you own a Citabria), tailwheels are no longer a logical airplane to learn how to become a pilot in.
[/ QUOTE ]
>>Well .... I have to disagree. In fact I'll disagree strongly.<<
Well...I'll see your disagree strongly and raise it to a strongly and vigorously, with great enthusiasm, support the tailwheel.
The best of all worlds would be starting your basic training in the most basic airplane and moving up as you go. You will quickly learn some skills in the taildragger that will lay a more solid foundation of basic skills. Of course there's a reason that 99% of pilots train in trycycle gear. They are more forgiving and less demanding of skill. YOU WANT TO BE SKILLLED or should any way.
In fact if you could start in a taildragger with very few instruments and radios, no flaps, and minmal brakes that would be best. Many pilots today think things like flaps and radios, and brakes are VERY important. In fact skills like side-slipping and rudder control and speed control and landing in the touchdown zone are really important and you will learn that with a basic taildragger.
I learned to fly with an old crop duster who had a total disdain for radios and flaps and other 'modern conveniences". Flaps were things you used if you so badly misjudged the landing that a sideslip wouldn't suffice to get you down. Later, no flap landings were a non-event for me, an "abnormal" for other guys.
Go for it. It's the best way to go.
Well .... I have to disagree. In fact I'll disagree strongly. Don't do your PPL in a tailwheel. Yeah, it'll be easier to transition later into a tricycle gear airplane but there's no reason for that to be an objective goal for the first time you learn to fly. While the maneuvers may be slightly easier in a tailwheel like a Citabria because the airplane controls smoother, the landings and take-offs will be much more of a challenge. A pre-private WILL struggle with the shorts and softs in a tailwheel (remember, no flaps in a tailwheel). Not to mention the very minimal instrument panel (usually no attitude indictor or heading indicator) The tailwheels are a lot of fun to fly but think about it, there's gotta be a reason that 99%+ of pilots train in a tricycle gear airplane. Barring any real good reason (e.g. you own a Citabria), tailwheels are no longer a logical airplane to learn how to become a pilot in.
[/ QUOTE ]
>>Well .... I have to disagree. In fact I'll disagree strongly.<<
Well...I'll see your disagree strongly and raise it to a strongly and vigorously, with great enthusiasm, support the tailwheel.
The best of all worlds would be starting your basic training in the most basic airplane and moving up as you go. You will quickly learn some skills in the taildragger that will lay a more solid foundation of basic skills. Of course there's a reason that 99% of pilots train in trycycle gear. They are more forgiving and less demanding of skill. YOU WANT TO BE SKILLLED or should any way.
In fact if you could start in a taildragger with very few instruments and radios, no flaps, and minmal brakes that would be best. Many pilots today think things like flaps and radios, and brakes are VERY important. In fact skills like side-slipping and rudder control and speed control and landing in the touchdown zone are really important and you will learn that with a basic taildragger.
I learned to fly with an old crop duster who had a total disdain for radios and flaps and other 'modern conveniences". Flaps were things you used if you so badly misjudged the landing that a sideslip wouldn't suffice to get you down. Later, no flap landings were a non-event for me, an "abnormal" for other guys.
Go for it. It's the best way to go.
USMCmech
Well-Known Member
Alchemy
The -7 degree flap position on the Maule is the normal position for cruise. I have always heard this position refered to as "reflexed" Flaps 0 degerees is actually the first notch of flaps. There are a few other aircraft with this design including the Seawind amphibian.
Maules are great planes, that picture isn't even their most powerful model. They didn't want to try it with the turboprop because they were afraid of clipping the roof!
Also belive it or not a tricycle gear is acctually a little better at shortfield takeoffs than a taildrager. However the taildragger is much better at dealing with rough fields. This is why so many bush operations like them.
The -7 degree flap position on the Maule is the normal position for cruise. I have always heard this position refered to as "reflexed" Flaps 0 degerees is actually the first notch of flaps. There are a few other aircraft with this design including the Seawind amphibian.
Maules are great planes, that picture isn't even their most powerful model. They didn't want to try it with the turboprop because they were afraid of clipping the roof!
Also belive it or not a tricycle gear is acctually a little better at shortfield takeoffs than a taildrager. However the taildragger is much better at dealing with rough fields. This is why so many bush operations like them.
flyover
New Member
[ QUOTE ]
Actually if I could do it all over again, I would get my glider liscense even before I got my power ticket. I went for a ride in one and realized how ham fisted I was, gliders will teach you the art of flying. It's cheaper too!
[/ QUOTE ]
Many years ago Flying mag ran a story about a "secret society" of pilots where youngsters were chosen and taught the "right way" to be pilots. They started by studying DaVinci's drawings, building paper airplanes, then self-lauched gliders, etc etc, you get the idea. It was a great story and of course the whole point was learn the most basic fundamentals and build on them to produce the best pilot.
Gliders, definitely a skill booster.
Actually if I could do it all over again, I would get my glider liscense even before I got my power ticket. I went for a ride in one and realized how ham fisted I was, gliders will teach you the art of flying. It's cheaper too!
[/ QUOTE ]
Many years ago Flying mag ran a story about a "secret society" of pilots where youngsters were chosen and taught the "right way" to be pilots. They started by studying DaVinci's drawings, building paper airplanes, then self-lauched gliders, etc etc, you get the idea. It was a great story and of course the whole point was learn the most basic fundamentals and build on them to produce the best pilot.
Gliders, definitely a skill booster.