Post deleted by Doug Taylor

[sbav8r]

Re: *Follow On Discussion* from ATP vs. Ari Ben

The way people justify it is by having one person under the hood, one safety pilot, and an instructor in the back. You will not be able to find a reg stating that this is legal however, the regs are vague enough that people use as a loop hole. I've heard of this at a school in PHX and we asked the FSDO about it. For all I know they may have put a stop to it.

 

[bumflip]

 

[Dubbs42]

Re: *Follow On Discussion* from ATP vs. Ari Ben

What about "safety pilot" in the back seat? What do the FARs say about that? Actually, what is the real definition of the "safety pilot"? Look out for traffic?

 

[Vyse]

Re: *Follow On Discussion* from ATP vs. Ari Ben

Under the old rules, it was possible for an ATP to log any time in which he was designated as PIC of the aircraft. So, under the old regs, an ATP could sit in the back seat and log PIC as the designated PIC of the flight, while the student logged PIC as "sole manipulator" and a CFI in the front right seat logged PIC as instruction given.

However, FAR 61.51.e.2 now states that an ATP can only log time while acting as PIC "of an operation requiring an airline transport pilot certificate." So this loophole should be closed now.

-Hank

 

[ananoman]

Re: *Follow On Discussion* from ATP vs. Ari Ben

To Dubbs42, A safety pilot must be a rated pilot in the aircraft, in this case private multi-engine. It is not necessary to be instrument rated. They must also have access to the controls, so you cannot sit in the back seat. You can log PIC time if you agree with the pilot that you are the PIC of the flight. This means that if anything happens that its your responsibility.

The person flying under the hood can log PIC because they are the "sole manipulator of the controls". If you are not instrument rated and are flying IFR, it would not be appropriate to log PIC if the flight is going to be in IMC. When logging safety pilot time, the entire flight time cannot be logged since only one pilot is required for start up, taxi, shut down, etc. Who ever does this time loggs it. It is true that this is a loophole in the regs, and it is legitimate to log some time this way, but it should be avoided in large amounts. Those who hire pilots will obviously not respect safety pilot time the same as being the legitimate PIC. So if you and your buddies want to rent a plane and shoot some approaches go for it, just don't rack up hundreds of hours and expect to get hired because you "have lots of time".

A CFI can also log PIC in the back seat since they are "providing instruction". So Person flying AC = PIC. Safety Pilot = PIC. Instructor in back seat = PIC. I would not log time in the back seat. There are schools who do this and the airlines know who they are. You will be laughed out of your interview.

 

[Dubbs42]

Re: *Follow On Discussion* from ATP vs. Ari Ben

Anan-

Thanks for the clarification, learn something everyday!