I just joined this group to get some advice from working pilots regarding my plans to possibly make a major career change to commerical aviation. I am 31 and an attorney. However, since I was a kid I have had a major interest in aviation - still look at planes overhead everytime I hear one - and my interest has only increased in the last few years. I have a strong gut feeling that to be happy in life I need to get into another career, and I think that aviation is it. There are two schools here in Atlanta that tell me I can move fairly quickly through training if I dedicate myself to it full-time (i.e. quit or take a leave of absence from my job). They tell me that step two is to build hours as an instructor at the same or another school until I have enough hours to apply with a regional. Unfortuntatly I don't know any pilots personally to seek advice about this huge decision. What is a realisitc gameplan from square one to commerical pilot? Are instructor jobs difficult to get once you complete initial training? What are the job prospects and financial realities that I can expect assumning I successfully complete training? Will my degree make me a more attractive candidiate to the airlines? I have done as much research as I can on my own about these questions but definitely need advice from some pilots who have actually been through this. Thanks much to anyone who can give me some guidance. From what I have read on this site so far, it's pretty rough out there right now. I appreciate any advice you can give.
Possible career change - need advice . . .
- Thread starter DGC1
- Start date
montanapilot
Well-Known Member
well you have come to the right place for advice. Just remember if it sounds to good to be true it probably is.
Sprint100
Well-Known Member
I could honestly say the money drop will hit you big-time. I love to fly but like the idea of flying for recreation/on my own schedule.
Before I quit my job, right before working at an FBO, an executive told me that some passions don't need to become jobs. I thought he was just trying to get me to stay LOL. Sometimes it is wiser to keep the job to support the passion. Noone here can make up your mind for you, but that is how far I got in my career change.
Before I quit my job, right before working at an FBO, an executive told me that some passions don't need to become jobs. I thought he was just trying to get me to stay LOL. Sometimes it is wiser to keep the job to support the passion. Noone here can make up your mind for you, but that is how far I got in my career change.
G
Guest
Guest
I'm in your same situation, only going the opposite way.
I'm currently at UND majoring in commercial aviation. My passion has always been flying, but over the past year I have been leaning towards law school after I finish up here. I come from a family of attorneys, and worked in for my dad all through high school. It is something that I have always been interested in. With the job market in aviation like it is today, and probably when I graduate, I figured it would be a great way to develope and alternate plan. CFI through law school, build hours, and if an aviation job comes along after school, great. Otherwise I will have another career choice that I know I would enjoy just as much.
No real advice from me, just thought it was a bit ironic.
Good Luck!
P.S. My dad used to be with King&Spalding when we were down in ATL back in the day. Hopefully planning on law school somewhere in the Georgia/southern area. Love it down there!
I'm currently at UND majoring in commercial aviation. My passion has always been flying, but over the past year I have been leaning towards law school after I finish up here. I come from a family of attorneys, and worked in for my dad all through high school. It is something that I have always been interested in. With the job market in aviation like it is today, and probably when I graduate, I figured it would be a great way to develope and alternate plan. CFI through law school, build hours, and if an aviation job comes along after school, great. Otherwise I will have another career choice that I know I would enjoy just as much.
No real advice from me, just thought it was a bit ironic.
Good Luck!
P.S. My dad used to be with King&Spalding when we were down in ATL back in the day. Hopefully planning on law school somewhere in the Georgia/southern area. Love it down there!
rv7
New Member
The way I see it you have a couple of good options:
1) If you make enough money as an attorney, buy a plane and see if that satisfies your aviation desires. If you find that you must make a career out of it, procede to step 2.
2) Continue working and save up enough money (if you don't already have enough saved) to pay for all of your flight training and maybe even some to help out with your living expenses during and after your training, because money won't be flowing in like you are used to.
If you do decide to make it a career, I would suggest going to a school like ATP and doing their ACCP course. At a school such as this one, you will complete all necessary training in well under 6 months. The sooner that you get your training done, the sooner that you can joing the workforce.
I guess it all boils down to how bad you want to do this? It can and has been done before, you should check out the other forum here at JetCareers called "Career Changes." Read everything that you can there.
Your college degree won't make you that much more attractive for employment, just about all airlines require at least a four year degree and many people have more than that, but on the bright side it is something that you can always fall back on if need be, and that is a great thing to have in this industry.
In reality there are many other options, it is just my personal opinion that if you are going to make a career out of this, get out there and get your ratings/ licenses as soon as possible. Good luck with whatever it is that you decide to do.
1) If you make enough money as an attorney, buy a plane and see if that satisfies your aviation desires. If you find that you must make a career out of it, procede to step 2.
2) Continue working and save up enough money (if you don't already have enough saved) to pay for all of your flight training and maybe even some to help out with your living expenses during and after your training, because money won't be flowing in like you are used to.
If you do decide to make it a career, I would suggest going to a school like ATP and doing their ACCP course. At a school such as this one, you will complete all necessary training in well under 6 months. The sooner that you get your training done, the sooner that you can joing the workforce.
I guess it all boils down to how bad you want to do this? It can and has been done before, you should check out the other forum here at JetCareers called "Career Changes." Read everything that you can there.
Your college degree won't make you that much more attractive for employment, just about all airlines require at least a four year degree and many people have more than that, but on the bright side it is something that you can always fall back on if need be, and that is a great thing to have in this industry.
In reality there are many other options, it is just my personal opinion that if you are going to make a career out of this, get out there and get your ratings/ licenses as soon as possible. Good luck with whatever it is that you decide to do.
TheShortOne
Well-Known Member
something else to think about is whether or not you have a family and how this will affect them as well.
good luck in whatever you decide!
good luck in whatever you decide!
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Ditto to everything above. If you can afford it, buy the plane (or go into a partnership) and see if that is as far as you want to go. If not, find an instructor that will teach you in your plane. You'll probably wind up saving money if you fly a lot.
Mtts422, ever think of going into aviation law? I'm taking that class from ERAU right now, and it's probably my favorite college class so far.
Mtts422, ever think of going into aviation law? I'm taking that class from ERAU right now, and it's probably my favorite college class so far.
G
Guest
Guest
[ QUOTE ]
Mtts422, ever think of going into aviation law? I'm taking that class from ERAU right now, and it's probably my favorite college class so far.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yea I have. I sat down and talked to our aviation law professor for a couple of hours the other week. He had some great suggestions and insight into avit law. It's something that I'm definetely going to look into.
Mtts422, ever think of going into aviation law? I'm taking that class from ERAU right now, and it's probably my favorite college class so far.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yea I have. I sat down and talked to our aviation law professor for a couple of hours the other week. He had some great suggestions and insight into avit law. It's something that I'm definetely going to look into.
flyover
New Member
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Maybe its just me, but it sure seems that there are a lot of lawyers who change careers and go into commercial flying? Not that there's anything wrong with it, just an observation. Has anyone else noticed that?
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That's good. Fewer lawyers trying to destroy aviation with lawsuits.
Maybe its just me, but it sure seems that there are a lot of lawyers who change careers and go into commercial flying? Not that there's anything wrong with it, just an observation. Has anyone else noticed that?
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That's good. Fewer lawyers trying to destroy aviation with lawsuits.
Thanks everyone for your advice. Seems like the big points here are (1) think about it carefully and maybe try out aviation first as a hobby before taking the plunge and (2) if I decide to do this, then get through training as fast as possible. There are two programs here in Atlanta that claim you can move very quickly if you work on it full time. So, if I do this I would try to get through as fast as possible. But, then I would still need to build hours, right? During that stage, how much do flight instructors make? Then, how much do first officers make at regional carriers? From what I've read, trying to get hired at a major airline with minumum qualifications is a pipe dream because there are so many pilots in the regionals waiting to move up. Or am I mistaken on that? Thanks everyone.
Oh, and as for lawyers moving into aviation - I have heard quite a few stopries about this myself. Actually was waiting for an Airtran flight a few years ago and an off duty pilot sitting next to me had a Harvard Law School sticker on his luggage. We started talking and he had made the change from law to aviation. Probably gave up a six figure salary to do it. Wish I had asked him more questions then but was not seriously considering it at the time.
Oh, and as for lawyers moving into aviation - I have heard quite a few stopries about this myself. Actually was waiting for an Airtran flight a few years ago and an off duty pilot sitting next to me had a Harvard Law School sticker on his luggage. We started talking and he had made the change from law to aviation. Probably gave up a six figure salary to do it. Wish I had asked him more questions then but was not seriously considering it at the time.
TO: Mtts422
You are in a great position! I think lawyers and pilots have at least one thing in common - once they (we) decide to go through flight school or law school, few people can change our minds, no matter how hard they might try. Remember - as a lawyer, even an aviation lawyer, your life will entail sitting in an office all day surrounded by piles of documents. Lawyering is detail work. This is very different from what I hear pilots like about flying. If you have a family of lawyers to give you advice, I won't be presumptous by giving you more but I'll tell you a short story.
Right before I took the law school admissions exam I was sitting on a bench reading a test prep book and a lawyer I had never met started trying to talk to me out of the law - told me to read a book called "Running from the law." Despite public opinion I do think it is a noble profession - and you can make a lot of money right out of school. And I am proud to be a lawyer.. BUT, and it is unfortunate that this is the case, most lawyers I know are not happy with their careers. These are bright people who generally would make a different decision if they could go back. Just my two cents worth. Good luck though whichever way you go.
You are in a great position! I think lawyers and pilots have at least one thing in common - once they (we) decide to go through flight school or law school, few people can change our minds, no matter how hard they might try. Remember - as a lawyer, even an aviation lawyer, your life will entail sitting in an office all day surrounded by piles of documents. Lawyering is detail work. This is very different from what I hear pilots like about flying. If you have a family of lawyers to give you advice, I won't be presumptous by giving you more but I'll tell you a short story.
Right before I took the law school admissions exam I was sitting on a bench reading a test prep book and a lawyer I had never met started trying to talk to me out of the law - told me to read a book called "Running from the law." Despite public opinion I do think it is a noble profession - and you can make a lot of money right out of school. And I am proud to be a lawyer.. BUT, and it is unfortunate that this is the case, most lawyers I know are not happy with their careers. These are bright people who generally would make a different decision if they could go back. Just my two cents worth. Good luck though whichever way you go.
Soonermurph
New Member
I practiced law for nine years before making the change. I haven't regretted it at all.
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
CFI's makes 12 to 15K and first year regional F/O's make 18-22K. Ask Bogberto what he makes as a senior F/O at Mesa....I hear it's less than 27.5/hr.
The better the job in aviation, the higher the quals and the more luck you'll need to make it. Any major that's hiring right now is going to be able to pick and choose from the best of the best. If you honestly can say to yourself "I won't be happy unless I have a major job"....then I wouldn't recommend you get into this business.
Are you sure you couldn't fly part-time while doing your current job? Just to make sure this is something you want to do. Not to be discouraging...I just wouldn't get into this unless you are prepared to live on next to nothing, pay wise. I hope you're not married. All that said....I wouldn't want to do anything else for a living and still would have been happy if I had wound up at a good regional or a lower tier freight or pax airline.
The better the job in aviation, the higher the quals and the more luck you'll need to make it. Any major that's hiring right now is going to be able to pick and choose from the best of the best. If you honestly can say to yourself "I won't be happy unless I have a major job"....then I wouldn't recommend you get into this business.
Are you sure you couldn't fly part-time while doing your current job? Just to make sure this is something you want to do. Not to be discouraging...I just wouldn't get into this unless you are prepared to live on next to nothing, pay wise. I hope you're not married. All that said....I wouldn't want to do anything else for a living and still would have been happy if I had wound up at a good regional or a lower tier freight or pax airline.
I'm a 30-something attorney -- wife and young child -- went to top 10 law school -- practiced at 6-figures in an elite DC firm since graduating -- hate every second of it with a burning passionate hatred -- leaving it as soon as I can do so without going bankrupt...literally (just recently clawed our way down below the 6-figure mark of student debt, so it's gonna take a while). Becoming an attorney was the worst decision I ever made (and that's saying something), but as you noted, once people decide to do it, they generally just will (high LSAT scores are satan's best tools
). I'm getting my PPL(H) on the side (weekends) in order simply to stay sane. I used to try to parse and snip and analyze and weigh the costs and benefits of my desire to fly, but now I just think that I have a simple addiction, and like any other junkie, I'll do irrational (even 'harmful' in some larger sense...ex: incur mother-in-law's wrath) things to support it. I personally can't even begin to imagine spending the bulk of my life in the office just so I can snip out a little bit of flying here and there. Life's too short, and I'm too addicted. But people's addiction levels vary. What's yours?
This is absolutely bar none the best forum on the internet for fixed wing advice. Sometimes the advice tends to be a little narrow, though (understandably). Just don't forget that there's a LOT more to "commercial aviation" than fixed wings and regionals and majors. I discovered helicopters only after starting in fixed wings...hadn't even given rotors a moment's consideration before, but they ended up TRULY addicting me. Just keep an open mind and eye about the universe of "commercial aviation" because the advice you seem to be seeking can vary quite a bit (from fixed wing to rotors, for example). Oh yeah, and don't listen to the 'hope you're not married' thing -- an understanding spouse with a good income can be an asset of incredible worth to the addict.
This is absolutely bar none the best forum on the internet for fixed wing advice. Sometimes the advice tends to be a little narrow, though (understandably). Just don't forget that there's a LOT more to "commercial aviation" than fixed wings and regionals and majors. I discovered helicopters only after starting in fixed wings...hadn't even given rotors a moment's consideration before, but they ended up TRULY addicting me. Just keep an open mind and eye about the universe of "commercial aviation" because the advice you seem to be seeking can vary quite a bit (from fixed wing to rotors, for example). Oh yeah, and don't listen to the 'hope you're not married' thing -- an understanding spouse with a good income can be an asset of incredible worth to the addict.
ready2fly
Well-Known Member
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Mtts422, ever think of going into aviation law? I'm taking that class from ERAU right now, and it's probably my favorite college class so far.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yea I have. I sat down and talked to our aviation law professor for a couple of hours the other week. He had some great suggestions and insight into avit law. It's something that I'm definetely going to look into.
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Mtts422 - when you're ready to make that move, let me know. I work in an aviation law firm here in Tampa. I'd be glad to pass on your resume as a fellow JC'er.
R2F
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Mtts422, ever think of going into aviation law? I'm taking that class from ERAU right now, and it's probably my favorite college class so far.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yea I have. I sat down and talked to our aviation law professor for a couple of hours the other week. He had some great suggestions and insight into avit law. It's something that I'm definetely going to look into.
[/ QUOTE ]
Mtts422 - when you're ready to make that move, let me know. I work in an aviation law firm here in Tampa. I'd be glad to pass on your resume as a fellow JC'er.
R2F
ready2fly
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Remember - as a lawyer, even an aviation lawyer, your life will entail sitting in an office all day surrounded by piles of documents.
[/ QUOTE ]
So true!! SO SO TRUE! I'm a Paralegal in the aviation law field and that describes my day to a tee.
I sit here and look out my office window and wish I were flying! But there has NEVER been a day where I looked out my cockpit window and wished I were in this office.
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BUT, and it is unfortunate that this is the case, most lawyers I know are not happy with their careers. These are bright people who generally would make a different decision if they could go back.
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Also true. After the first six months of strutting around with other new attorneys in bars saying "I'm a lawyer" to hot girls, the newness wears off and the reality sets in and most of my friends absolutely HATED being an attorney for the first three to five years they were practicing.
However, that said: Most stuck it out and have found a happy medium... but, most do still wish they had done something else.
Remember - as a lawyer, even an aviation lawyer, your life will entail sitting in an office all day surrounded by piles of documents.
[/ QUOTE ]
So true!! SO SO TRUE! I'm a Paralegal in the aviation law field and that describes my day to a tee.
I sit here and look out my office window and wish I were flying! But there has NEVER been a day where I looked out my cockpit window and wished I were in this office.
[ QUOTE ]
BUT, and it is unfortunate that this is the case, most lawyers I know are not happy with their careers. These are bright people who generally would make a different decision if they could go back.
[/ QUOTE ]
Also true. After the first six months of strutting around with other new attorneys in bars saying "I'm a lawyer" to hot girls, the newness wears off and the reality sets in and most of my friends absolutely HATED being an attorney for the first three to five years they were practicing.
However, that said: Most stuck it out and have found a happy medium... but, most do still wish they had done something else.
Oh yikes -- didn't mean for the "elite" characterization to come across as snotty. I'm a jeans and beer guy. I was just trying to establish that my dissatisfaction wasn't a function of a flea-bitten environment. I don't know what kind of practice our original poster pursues, but I have plenty of miserable 'Jack McCoy' friends too...and they don't even get the small pleasure of making enough coin to own a citation to fly once every blue moon. There IS a happy medium somewhere in here, probably. I'm just especially unhappy with my current profession and especially addicted to another one...but unable to switch on account of debt...a toxic mix. Pass me that beer? lol.