POI stopped by... no lube used

brian434

brian434

Well-Known Member
So our POI stopped out today to review a few things. I had a short flight over to the island and picked up a couple passengers. They have a couple very small bags maybe 60# in total. Their weights were estimated as well as their bags. In our GOM it says cargo will be weighed but does not specify what cargo is. Are people cargo? Their personal bags? The flowers they brought along?

Well he had me run a written weight and balance to see what it came out to be. The CG was within limits by about 1.5" at landing but that was too close for his comfort. They're talking about forcing a new check ride and at least issuing a warning letter. WTF!
 
Well if it's one of those 2 year letters that is only on file at FAA and destroyed as it expires no biggy. I can name two respected captains from the -900 days that had those and it never effected them being hired at elsewhere. I can probably name a few more but it's not important.

They aren't looking to 709 you or anything right?

I've seen guys work themselves into a ball over some brush with the FAA that turned out to be nothing.

Don't suppose you have a union to talk to about this?
 
If it was within limits then it was within limits. .00000000001" within limits is safe and legal. If he's not comfortable with it being 1.5" WITHIN limits tell him not to get on an airline ever again.
As far as pax and their bags go, we use actual weights, which means everything is weighed. I think there are provisions for stated weights, but then you have to add some to that or something. (not sure, we don't use that)
 
I would wait it out. If they actually go so far as to do anything about it, I would appeal to someone above the POI. That's unacceptable. If you were within limits, you were. Period. In the mean time, do everything right and weigh stuff every time..
 
Yes he was within limits.. but he didn't KNOW he was before the flight, that's the catch. Sounds like your GOM is also poorly written, what is the procedures for passenger and baggage/cargo weights listed in your OpsSpecs? I would hazard a guess that it will be actual passenger weights, maybe with the provision for asked weights +10lbs, and actual weights for baggage and cargo. I would make myself very familiar with all that info in the OpsSpecs, and make sure you followed those procedures, before you go shake the FAA tree. In a ramp check there is nothing worse than having a "I don't know" answer, and yes after the fact you figured out you were within limits, but the Fed way of thinking is that you never know if you are within limits on all your flights. From my experience these incidents usually follow with a meeting between the Fed's and the CP/DO to review the procedures and operational control issues that led to the problem, and more often that not just leads to some remedial training and GOM procedure changes.
 
The GOM actually calls for stated weight plus 10 with the passengers and actual weight on the bags. Problem is my fried food loving passengers often understate their weight. Sometimes by a LOT! So by the GOM and Opspecs I could be off by much more than an educated guess on loading bags seven days a week for the last three months. We don't get much entertainment here so we make bets on how close we can get to actual weights of random junk when we have slow days. (Keep in mind I'm in BFE and tied to the airport with internet the speed of smell.)
 
SteveC said:
*Yeah That* to the whole post. Better than I could have explained it.
Click to expand...

They were on the rampage today. In addition to the WB they were after our charts. There is no requirement for us to have any certain provider for charts so they had an issue with our State of Michgan DOT charts and non-jep/nos charts. Keep in mind that we are limited to VFR operations in the PA32 which I was flying. Maybe I'm missing the reg that does require a certain provider but I can't find it anywhere.
 
brian434 said:
They were on the rampage today. In addition to the WB they were after our charts. There is no requirement for us to have any certain provider for charts so they had an issue with our State of Michgan DOT charts and non-jep/nos charts. Keep in mind that we are limited to VFR operations in the PA32 which I was flying. Maybe I'm missing the reg that does require a certain provider but I can't find it anywhere.
Click to expand...


Sounds like their issue is with your company GOM/Opsecs. If you are flying the plane as you were TRAINED, then I would use that. If your company is teaching/telling you to do it a certain way and the Feds freak, then that is their problem. While a fear of backlash is a concern at smaller companies, I would not take the fall for the company. Start thinking about why you do what you do. Did a manager (LCA, check pilot, company instructor) tell you how to do this in your initial or did you just start doing it on your own?
 
Well seems how none of the planes have a scale its pretty clear that its a company wide thing. I was told to estimate weights as it was more accurate than relying on passengers to be truthful. We do weigh large shipments before they are loaded but we pick up in so many places that there is no way to weigh everything without a scale on the plane, which in 30 years there hasn't been.
 
Our GOM has estimated weights for passengers, however, their bags and anything they bring needs to weighed.
If you were in limits, then you were within limits. If he actually writes a letter, I would go the FSDO and talk to the higher ups. I would be willing to bet there is something going on behind the scenes.
 
After further research I found the place in the GOM where actual weights must be used for bags. Passengers are to be asked and 10 lbs added to their given weights. Apparently it's a provision that no one here knew about or at least didn't practice because until yesterday there was not a single scale at our regular destinations or on our aircraft. I just happened to be the lucky one they saw flying yesterday. There was no discussion of their hundreds of other visits and the fact that they didn't catch the lack of scale in previous inspections and ramp checks. I was in the wrong but also have a hard time saying they were entirely correct in the way they handled things, both yesterday and on previous visits.
 
If it is that widespread of a problem, I would guess that they will likely handle it at the company level.
 
brian434 said:
After further research I found the place in the GOM where actual weights must be used for bags. Passengers are to be asked and 10 lbs added to their given weights. Apparently it's a provision that no one here knew about or at least didn't practice because until yesterday there was not a single scale at our regular destinations or on our aircraft. I just happened to be the lucky one they saw flying yesterday. There was no discussion of their hundreds of other visits and the fact that they didn't catch the lack of scale in previous inspections and ramp checks. I was in the wrong but also have a hard time saying they were entirely correct in the way they handled things, both yesterday and on previous visits.
Click to expand...

You never looked through your OPSPECS or GOM yourself?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top