POH Question

[johntlewis]

I have a CFI friend that says that the original POH that was issued by the manufacturer to the specific airplane when it was bought (or an authorized replacement for the specific airplane) must be the one in the airplane. I, however, have seen at many flight schools replacement POH's that can be bought off the shelf. I've searched the FAR's but can't find anything. Shed some light on this if you can.

 

[bdhill1979]

The POH is serial number specific. Those books you are seeing are not replacements, but Airplane Flight Manuals (AFM). The AFM is information general to the make and model, but not necissarily to the particular serial number. For general information the AFM is fine, but you should use the POH for specific info.

 

[johntlewis]

The POH is serial number specific. Those books you are seeing are not replacements, but Airplane Flight Manuals (AFM). The AFM is information general to the make and model, but not necissarily to the particular serial number. For general information the AFM is fine, but you should use the POH for specific info.

3

I see what you're saying. However, I bought a Seminole "Pilot's Operating Handbook" (1-1) right off the shelf at Skymates a few months ago. This certainly is not serial number specific. It also calls it an "FAA Approved Airplane Flight Manual" on the same page. I'm not saying you're wrong. I just need more enlightenment.

 

[bdhill1979]

3

I see what you're saying. However, I bought a Seminole "Pilot's Operating Handbook" (1-1) right off the shelf at Skymates a few months ago. This certainly is not serial number specific. It also calls it an "FAA Approved Airplane Flight Manual" on the same page. I'm not saying you're wrong. I just need more enlightenment.

The two have basically the same info, but the AFM is generally applicable to a wide range of serial numbers, whereas the manufacturer may have made changes to the aircraft between serial numbers. The most important thing in my mind is that the POH will have specific weight and balance info that should normally be updated any time that parts are added/removed. The AFM won't have updated equipment/weight and balance lists, just what was installed at the factory.

Actually the very first page of my Piper Arrow III AFM says:

WARNING

This Information Manual may be used for general information purposes only.

This Information Manual is not kept current. It must not be used as a substitute for the official FAA approved Pilot's Operating Handbook required for operation of the airplane.
​

Check your book, I bet it says something similar.

 

[meritflyer]

3I see what you're saying. However, I bought a Seminole "Pilot's Operating Handbook" (1-1) right off the shelf at Skymates a few months ago. This certainly is not serial number specific. It also calls it an "FAA Approved Airplane Flight Manual" on the same page. I'm not saying you're wrong. I just need more enlightenment.

The POH is not a POH unless its aircraft specific. Its a PIM or Pilot's Information Manual.

Go read FAR 21.5 which outlines the need for a specific POH to be within the aircraft (or rotorcraft).

Also, what do you think the "W" in AROW means? Weight and balance correct? This correlates with the actual equipment installed within the specific aircraft and gives specifc weight and balance limitations required by FAR 23.1589. The generic POH you picked up at does not outline any specific equipment installed on any particular aircraft so for this reason right there, the weight and balance data provided is potentially inaccurate.

 

[ajf005]

The POH is serial number specific. Those books you are seeing are not replacements, but Airplane Flight Manuals (AFM). The AFM is information general to the make and model, but not necissarily to the particular serial number. For general information the AFM is fine, but you should use the POH for specific info.

You have it backwards, the POH is generic for the A/C while the AFM is specific for the A/C serial number

 

[bdhill1979]

You have it backwards, the POH is generic for the A/C while the AFM is specific for the A/C serial number

I am wrong about calling it an AFM, its a PIM that he is talking about, but POHs are definately serial number specific. I think its just symantics.

 

[johntlewis]

I see your points. Very good observations. So which one is required to be in the airplane? Can it be generic or must it be serial number specific?

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

You have it backwards, the POH is generic for the A/C while the AFM is specific for the A/C serial number

The terminology gets even more confusing.

An AFM is an FAA-approved "Airplane Flight Manual." You'll find references to it in all of the FAR Parts that deal with airplane certification requirements. See, for example FAR 23.1581...

A POH, "Pilots Operating Handbook" is a combination of material required by the certification regulations (AFM) and other material that the manufacturer wants you to have. "POH" actually refers to the format of the book - the order and naming of the sections and the material that goes into each - which was subject to an agreement among the manufacturers so that transitions between makes and models would be easier. If you open up a POH, the very first page talks in terms of specific aircraft serial numbers. It will be filled in And, the manufacturer and others will add to it - revised pages, new material, changes to data because of added equipment, etc. The POH describes an AFM that meets GAMA (General Aviation Manufacturers' Association) Specification No. 1.

A PIM is just a term we use for an off-the-shelf manual in the POH format. It looks just like the stock POH for the same aircraft but it is not aircraft-specific (that page with the serial number will be there but the serial number will be blank), does not reflect any later changes or added equipment, and doesn't get updated.

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

I see your points. Very good observations. So which one is required to be in the airplane? Can it be generic or must it be serial number specific?

The one that is the official AFM - a POH with serial numbers for aircraft manufactured beginning in about 1975 (when the POH format started).

For other airplanes, it may be a "current approved Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual" in some other format, or a bound or unbound collection of "approved manual material, markings, and placards, or any combination thereof." [FAR 91.9(b)]

But if there is a POH for it; the POH, with the serial number, is the required document. Owner add new avionics? The PIM won't have the required information; a POH will.