PNF logging actual?

I log actual whenever I'm a required crewmember(SIC) on board. The regulations, as stated above, validate this.
 
BobDDuck said:
Must be a slow day if you called the FSDO:)


I don't really log instrument anymore unless I am logging an approach, which of course brings up the question, how low does it have to be to actually log the approach. My thought is any time you can't land VFR (1000 and 3) you are good to log it. Agree?
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I log it anytime I have to descend past the Final Fix and I'm not in VFR conditions.
 
Ralgha said:
§ 61.51 doesn't say you have to be the pilot flying to log it.
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If you read further it does:

(g) Logging instrument flight time. (1) A person may log instrument time only for that flight time when the person operates the aircraft solely by reference to instruments under actual or simulated instrument flight conditions.

It doesn't say the person(s) or people, it says THE person.

Regardless, it is unprofessional for a "professional" pilot to be nitpicking over a tenth or two. The time does you no good other than landing your first job. If its your leg, you get the time. If it's not your leg, it's stealing.

If you want to build time a regional isn't the place to do it (unless you're in a B1900). If you want to build some actual, Lloyd can hook you up at FLX.
 
NJA_Capt said:
Regardless, it is unprofessional for a "professional" pilot to be nitpicking over a tenth or two. The time does you no good other than landing your first job. If its your leg, you get the time. If it's not your leg, it's stealing.
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I don't have a problem with you being wrong. I don't have a problem with you making up bizarre interpretations of the regulations that have nothing to do with reality. But for GOD'S sake could you at least be consistent.

By your logic you wouldn't log ANY time when you're the PNF. No total, no multi, no nothing. Because it's "stealing". Is that what you meant? Is that what's in your logbook? No, I thought not. So could you please make up a CONSISTENT bizarre explanation of why you log the way you do?
 
NJA_Capt said:
If you read further it does:

(g) Logging instrument flight time. (1) A person may log instrument time only for that flight time when the person operates the aircraft solely by reference to instruments under actual or simulated instrument flight conditions.

It doesn't say the person(s) or people, it says THE person.

Regardless, it is unprofessional for a "professional" pilot to be nitpicking over a tenth or two. The time does you no good other than landing your first job. If its your leg, you get the time. If it's not your leg, it's stealing.

If you want to build time a regional isn't the place to do it (unless you're in a B1900). If you want to build some actual, Lloyd can hook you up at FLX.
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Hey hey hey, we've got Amflight guys here chomping at the bit for some fresh blood too!
 
CFIse]text not worth copying[/quote] Speaking of bizarre interpretations :confused: :confused: And this is your first post on the thread. The reality is this: Ask your air carrier for a print out of your flight times and see which way the company has it logged for you. I will pretty much guarantee it gave the .1 actual to the PF. I never said anything about tt said:
Hey hey hey, we've got Amflight guys here chomping at the bit for some fresh blood too!
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Didn't mean to single FLX out :D :D (I'm biased I guess).
Single pilot freight dogging is the absolute best thing a civilian pilot can do to hone their skills. I put in my 1000 hours and wouldn't trade it for anything. And you never have to wonder who is logging the time ;)
 
For those that say it's only the PF, what about the CA? How is that different from a CFI logging actual with a student? The FO sure as hell can't fly without him. So is it okay for the CA to log IMC when he's PF but not the FO.

Sorry, I still say it's a condition of flight. So, if I'm legal to log the flight time, I should be legal to log the conditions (night, actual, etc). I don't log approaches unless I'm PF and it's IMC past the FAF, though. Anything else is cheating. I wouldn't stay "stealing" since you didn't use white out and take it from the other guy's logbook.
 
If I had a column in my logbook for logging "time during which computer was operated solely by reference to JC (can I log it?) debates", I would be an ATP from just that.
 
kellwolf said:
For those that say it's only the PF, what about the CA? How is that different from a CFI logging actual with a student? The FO sure as hell can't fly without him. So is it okay for the CA to log IMC when he's PF but not the FO.

.
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Part 61 is explicit in regards to a CFII's authority to log instrument time. In regards to the captain...it simply states that he can log PIC regardless of who's flying. Does this mean he can log the instrument time? I don't believe that to be the intent.
 
Captain_Bob said:
Soooo... I guess nobody (NJA Capt, 767Driver) believes EDUC8-or/the FAA??
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No.

If there's a letter of interpretation issued, then I would accept it. But I don't interpret part 61 itself to give that lattitude in logging instrument time (PIC and SIC logging it simultaneously.)
 
Here's the way I see it. It takes two pilots to OPERATE an aircraft, the PIC and the SIC. If it said "sole manipulator," then there would be no question. However, IMO, if you are required for the aircraft to operate, then it can be interpretted as being loggable.
 
FWIW (probably little), Army flight regulations allow both the PF and PNF to log actual instrument conditions (we call it "weather conditions") if the conditions exist.

Wonder if its the same for the AF?
 
NJA_Capt said:
I never said anything about tt, multi, etc... But I will since you are freaking out about things I didn't say.

TT: both log it
Multi: both log it
x/c: both log it
Four stripes: PIC
3 stripes or junior captain: SIC
t/o, landing, IMC, night: PF

What is bizarre: Logging CFI time from the back seat and logging IMC as PNF.
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So how's that consistent? It's not "stealing" time when you log multi-engine time, even though as the PNF all you do is work the engines and radios, neither of which are specific to a multi-engine plane, but it is "stealing" time when you log the fact that neither pilot can see out the window?

You may be right or wrong - but you're inconsistent - your justification is based on "stealing" time you're not entitled to. Well you're not entitled to the multi-engine time when you're not involved in the operation of any of the multi-engine characteristics of the plane. You can't have it both ways.
 
Log what you want but when you're at an interview with your dream job and the interviewer is asking why you're logging actual instrument time when the other guy is flying ask yourself if it was worth it
 
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