"...plenty of pilots willing to fly—if the pay’s right."

crazyjaydawg said:
But at the end of the day we can't throw out invalid comparisons as justification for shooting for the moon in a compensation package.
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50k is not shooting for the moon.

The negotiators should be asking for $70k and settle for somewhere near $50k. That's how they do it on Pawn Stars.

If the pay is raised it won't be raised again for another 20+ years.
 
Mark815 said:
Here's one thing that I've been thinking about though, what about just paying pilots for ALL their time? At the current $22-$26/hr some regionals pay, how much would you guys make if you were paid every hour you were at work, and not just door close to open?
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This has been taken to court in Alaska and the pilots have won against the company. There is currently a case in the works with the pilots of the North Slope Borough Search and Rescue over such issues.
 
jtrain609 said:
I didn't shell out all that money for training to become a regional airline pilot, I shelled it out to become a major airline pilot. Being a regional pilot is a step on that road.
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Perhaps. But look how long you've been a regional pilot. And look how much longer some other people have been. And also look at the four years you spent in college. When you start to figure this all in, someone who goes to a trade school and gets a job paying $50k at 20 years old with benefits and retirement is well ahead of you, and it's difficult for you to catch up when you factor in the time value of money and the debt you have to pay off. It made a lot more sense when you could get all of your ratings for $30k. Those days are long gone.

So the difference is that your receptionist will be a receptionist for the rest of her life.
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Nah. I believe strongly in promoting from within. She'll move up the chain over time and make some decent money as long as she sticks with us. But I'll acknowledge that that certainly isn't the case with most companies, and someone without an education or technical training is likely to end up making little money with little job security for their entire life. I just think that a trade school is probably the best route for most people in today's economy, and I don't believe the high cost of higher education is justified with the current economy and the economy we're likely to see continue for the foreseeable future. Seeing all of the resumes on my desk from people with graduate degrees trying desperately to get a non-skilled labor job was a big wake up call for me on just how bad things are out there for people.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Perhaps. But look how long you've been a regional pilot. And look how much longer some other people have been. And also look at the four years you spent in college. When you start to figure this all in, someone who goes to a trade school and gets a job paying $50k at 20 years old with benefits and retirement is well ahead of you, and it's difficult for you to catch up when you factor in the time value of money and the debt you have to pay off. It made a lot more sense when you could get all of your ratings for $30k. Those days are long gone.
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We're the same age, kiddo, I did my training for just around $30,000.
 
bc2209 said:
Como? Love to hear how you did this.
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If I recall he did it some time ago, and busted his azz at an FBO, possibly a discounted rate........I remember odd things at times and for some reason a post of his sticks out...Something along the lines off.....

"...filling his gas tank late so he could drive to another job.....while seeing his friends getting ready to head out on the town...." What does that show...? A dedication to get it done no matter what it takes.... Something like that....
 
ATN_Pilot said:
What do you mean?
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I was just wondering if you guys were taking inflation into account when you said that you acquired your ratings in the 90s for $30k. As in if it cost $30k back then to go from private to CFI, it should equal to a greater dollar value in today's money. I just used an inflation calculator to see how it would translate in 2014, that's still pretty good deal compared to how much all those ratings cost today.
 
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Cloud Surfer said:
I was just wondering if you guys were taking inflation into account when you said that you acquired your ratings in the 90s for $30k. As in if it cost $30k back then to go from private to CFI, it should equal to a greater dollar value in today's money.
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The problem with that is that wages haven't kept up with inflation, so paying more for the ratings to earn those wages makes no sense. I paid somewhere around $20k for all of my ratings, which I completed in 2000. When I was hired at Pinnacle in 2002, I made $19.54/hr. Today, 12 years later, an Endeavor FO makes $25/hr. That's a 28% increase in starting wages. But how much has the cost of getting the ratings gone up? Looks like ATP is offering a course similar to what I did for $65k. That's a 225% increase. That math don't work.
 
averettpilot said:
Does the 20-30k also get you a degree?
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I graduated from college in 2004 and my ratings and degree cost me about 56,000.

Now take into consideration, I went to a State University with a small aviation program and not a "Riddle Western Dakota University". :)
 
averettpilot said:
Does the 20-30k also get you a degree?
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Ha! Not even close. The average FO I flew with had over $80k in student loan debt to cover both the ratings and the degree. Many had over $100k. And that was 7-8 years ago. That's why I'm saying that it's impossible to justify this expense, even if you think you'll get to a major in 10 years.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Ha! Not even close. The average FO I flew with had over $80k in student loan debt to cover both the ratings and the degree. Many had over $100k. And that was 7-8 years ago. That's why I'm saying that it's impossible to justify this expense, even if you think you'll get to a major in 10 years.
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A former student of mine is a junior or maybe a senior now at the big university and he informed me that he'll be $200k in debt at the end of it. He kind of chuckled when he shared this me with, as if he didn't realize how big a number that is. Granted I'm pretty sure he's not clipping coupons while grocery shopping or other methods of living on a budget.
 
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