Please help - Civil Air Patrol!!!
- Thread starter Louie1975
- Start date
davetheflyer
New Member
I am an ex-CAPer also.
I got involved as a CFI and was made a Check Pilot (administering Form 5 annual checkrides). In spite of attending two National SAR Colleges and multiple Wing SAR excercises, I never got qualified as a Mission Pilot, largely because my squadron was the red-headed stepchild of the wing and it was hard to get scheduled to take the checkride from half a state away. I was also the Aerospace Education and Operations Officer responsible for teaching aerospace to the cadets once a month and handling paperwork for the aircraft.
I can second much of what has been said here. There is a mountain of paper involved to do anything in CAP. A lot of the people are old and a lot of the people are weird (not necessarily excluding myself
). A large percentage of CAP people let the uniform go their head.
My rating for the activities varied. The national activities were very good. Our squadron activities were reasonably good. However, anytime I went to a wing activity, I always came away feeling that I had wasted a day.
Having said all that, I did (and still do) have a lot of friends still in CAP. The squadron that I ended up with was filled with nice and interesting people (maybe that explains why we didn't get along with wing).
I am considering rejoining when I get the time and money.
I got involved as a CFI and was made a Check Pilot (administering Form 5 annual checkrides). In spite of attending two National SAR Colleges and multiple Wing SAR excercises, I never got qualified as a Mission Pilot, largely because my squadron was the red-headed stepchild of the wing and it was hard to get scheduled to take the checkride from half a state away. I was also the Aerospace Education and Operations Officer responsible for teaching aerospace to the cadets once a month and handling paperwork for the aircraft.
I can second much of what has been said here. There is a mountain of paper involved to do anything in CAP. A lot of the people are old and a lot of the people are weird (not necessarily excluding myself
My rating for the activities varied. The national activities were very good. Our squadron activities were reasonably good. However, anytime I went to a wing activity, I always came away feeling that I had wasted a day.
Having said all that, I did (and still do) have a lot of friends still in CAP. The squadron that I ended up with was filled with nice and interesting people (maybe that explains why we didn't get along with wing).
I am considering rejoining when I get the time and money.
aloft
New Member
[ QUOTE ]
As far as uniforms - according to CAPR 60-1 and 39-1 (flying regs and uniform regs respectively) you MUST be in uniform to fly aboard a corporate owned aircraft OR on a private owned aircraft while on a CAP reimbursed mission. There's no latitude allowed - especially in corporate owned aircraft - you MUST be in uniform - no question.
[/ QUOTE ]Ehh...not exactly. Situations do exist where a uniform isn't required to fly in a "corporate" aircraft or on a funded mission. I won't get into details, but it's plausible. (Less so for a wing commander, but that's another matter.)
[ QUOTE ]
...they now have a handful of different official uniforms - one of which is simply a pair of grey slacks and a white CAP knit type shirt - I wore that uniform alot while teaching and giving checkrides.
[/ QUOTE ]There's now a blue golf-style shirt with the CAP seal and your name/wings embroidered which is quite common among aircrews, worn with gray slacks--easy to mistake for "street clothes", but a legit uniform nonetheless.
As far as uniforms - according to CAPR 60-1 and 39-1 (flying regs and uniform regs respectively) you MUST be in uniform to fly aboard a corporate owned aircraft OR on a private owned aircraft while on a CAP reimbursed mission. There's no latitude allowed - especially in corporate owned aircraft - you MUST be in uniform - no question.
[/ QUOTE ]Ehh...not exactly. Situations do exist where a uniform isn't required to fly in a "corporate" aircraft or on a funded mission. I won't get into details, but it's plausible. (Less so for a wing commander, but that's another matter.)
[ QUOTE ]
...they now have a handful of different official uniforms - one of which is simply a pair of grey slacks and a white CAP knit type shirt - I wore that uniform alot while teaching and giving checkrides.
[/ QUOTE ]There's now a blue golf-style shirt with the CAP seal and your name/wings embroidered which is quite common among aircrews, worn with gray slacks--easy to mistake for "street clothes", but a legit uniform nonetheless.
IPad (10)
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
As far as uniforms - according to CAPR 60-1 and 39-1 (flying regs and uniform regs respectively) you MUST be in uniform to fly aboard a corporate owned aircraft OR on a private owned aircraft while on a CAP reimbursed mission.
[/ QUOTE ]
Doesn't that mean if you are flying it for free you have to be in uniform or am I reading it wrong.
As far as uniforms - according to CAPR 60-1 and 39-1 (flying regs and uniform regs respectively) you MUST be in uniform to fly aboard a corporate owned aircraft OR on a private owned aircraft while on a CAP reimbursed mission.
[/ QUOTE ]
Doesn't that mean if you are flying it for free you have to be in uniform or am I reading it wrong.
Hootie
Old Skool
Before I say anything I want to make it CLEAR that there are always exceptions to the rule. Meet your local unit and decide for yourself. But based on the cap folks that I have bumped into around my localized airports over the years. If you are in it only for the free flight time, I decided to play bump and smile with a fat chick who is the granddaughter of a crazy old dude who has a decent 182. They are both a forms of prostituting your self esteem. Its just that the fat chick is less embarrasing to be seen with and doesn't require a uniform or paperwork.
aloft
New Member
[ QUOTE ]
Doesn't that mean if you are flying it for free you have to be in uniform or am I reading it wrong.
[/ QUOTE ]What it means is that, generally speaking, a uniform is required anytime when flying a "corporate" aircraft, or when flying a privately owned aircraft on an AF-funded mission. There's one exception to this rule, of which I won't get into details here for operational security reasons.
Doesn't that mean if you are flying it for free you have to be in uniform or am I reading it wrong.
[/ QUOTE ]What it means is that, generally speaking, a uniform is required anytime when flying a "corporate" aircraft, or when flying a privately owned aircraft on an AF-funded mission. There's one exception to this rule, of which I won't get into details here for operational security reasons.
davetheflyer
New Member
Uniforms are required, even doing "proficiency flights" (i.e. boring holes in the sky). I had one of the white golf shirts that I would put on with my business casual pants after work for a lot of flights. I also had a flight suit that could be worn over street clothes.
We were told that CAP insurance was voided if the crew members were not in uniform because then it wasn't an official flight or some such.
As far as costs, for the flights that were out-of-pocket, we paid a maintenance fee of about $15 per hour plus fuel costs (these figures are a couple of years old). If it is an official mission, then the CAP pays everything.
The times that I went to SAR College, I flew from GMU to Blackstone AAF in Virginia, flew the practice missions, and then returned without paying a cent. That worked out to about ten hours of free flying over the weekend.
Additionally, I forgot to mention before that the wing had a solo encampment for cadets each year. A limited number of cadets were selected and then would go for a week or so and use the wing's aircraft to learn to fly up through the solo.
We were told that CAP insurance was voided if the crew members were not in uniform because then it wasn't an official flight or some such.
As far as costs, for the flights that were out-of-pocket, we paid a maintenance fee of about $15 per hour plus fuel costs (these figures are a couple of years old). If it is an official mission, then the CAP pays everything.
The times that I went to SAR College, I flew from GMU to Blackstone AAF in Virginia, flew the practice missions, and then returned without paying a cent. That worked out to about ten hours of free flying over the weekend.
Additionally, I forgot to mention before that the wing had a solo encampment for cadets each year. A limited number of cadets were selected and then would go for a week or so and use the wing's aircraft to learn to fly up through the solo.
EatSleepFly
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
for operational security reasons
[/ QUOTE ]
What kind of "operational security" does the CAP need?
for operational security reasons
[/ QUOTE ]
What kind of "operational security" does the CAP need?
aloft
New Member
[ QUOTE ]
What kind of "operational security" does the CAP need?
[/ QUOTE ]The kind that helps avoid putting people in danger needlessly.
Dave reminded me of two other exceptions to the uniform thing, which I can talk about: glider ops and the summer flight academies are generally a t-shirt & shorts affair. In particular, military-style boots are prohibited during glider ops.
What kind of "operational security" does the CAP need?
[/ QUOTE ]The kind that helps avoid putting people in danger needlessly.
Dave reminded me of two other exceptions to the uniform thing, which I can talk about: glider ops and the summer flight academies are generally a t-shirt & shorts affair. In particular, military-style boots are prohibited during glider ops.
I know quite a few people from my time in CAP. One of them an active board member here even!
Both of us I know joined in under the cadet program, and went pretty far in what is basically the military style leadership training in the program. As well, when I was 18-21 years old or so, I began spending a lot of time working on search missions. Either sitting around mission base, keeping track of a dozen planes and a few vehicles out on a search that I can be certain some of the ol' retired age guys could not have handled with about 20 sticky notes on each of them. Move on to flight roles, and into ground searches. All this was great fun, and gives that feeling of something done. Especially when a ground search results in finding a downed plane (though that pilot didn't survive).
I never got into doing the flying, as there is a ton of paperwork. All fairly mundane stuff though, and if you want to do that stuff, it would be fairly easy to get a bunch of pre-printed forms set up for yourself, and do some fill in the blank stuff.
I think CAP is useful for what you can do, but it is only what you make of the program. Avoid those few (and there really are very few of them, though vocal) that are on some sort of power trip, and it becomes a good thing.
Some of the things CAP gave me, before the age of 20:
A paid 2 week trip to Europe, and Washington DC, with friends.
Professional leadership training.
Awareness of fllight safety, by seeing what was hard or easy to find on a search.
That last thing keeping in mine always what to do in my flying days now.
A number of friends and contacts with similar interst, which resulted in a lot of free flyin' trips.
An understanding that those who tend to hate CAP base that on some very specific limited negative experiences from those few bad apples in the organization.
Flights in simulators, C-130s, miltary helicopters here and in the UK, and more, all of which would be nearly impossible for your average joe civilian on the street.
All in all, I think I got a good deal. Put maybe $500 into it up to that age, and a few hours a week of my time.
I do stress that CAP is not in itself a flying club. Their 3 missions: Aerospace Education, Emergency Services, Cadet Program, can all allow some flying, but the flight time will be a result of supporting one of those missions.
Oh, it also has little benifits of allow access to military flying clubs. Locally, the navy club has a t-34 members can access, if you are into that kinda stuff. I found it fun back when the T-34 was $34 an hour wet, which was a few $$ cheaper than a 172 at the time.
Josh
Both of us I know joined in under the cadet program, and went pretty far in what is basically the military style leadership training in the program. As well, when I was 18-21 years old or so, I began spending a lot of time working on search missions. Either sitting around mission base, keeping track of a dozen planes and a few vehicles out on a search that I can be certain some of the ol' retired age guys could not have handled with about 20 sticky notes on each of them. Move on to flight roles, and into ground searches. All this was great fun, and gives that feeling of something done. Especially when a ground search results in finding a downed plane (though that pilot didn't survive).
I never got into doing the flying, as there is a ton of paperwork. All fairly mundane stuff though, and if you want to do that stuff, it would be fairly easy to get a bunch of pre-printed forms set up for yourself, and do some fill in the blank stuff.
I think CAP is useful for what you can do, but it is only what you make of the program. Avoid those few (and there really are very few of them, though vocal) that are on some sort of power trip, and it becomes a good thing.
Some of the things CAP gave me, before the age of 20:
A paid 2 week trip to Europe, and Washington DC, with friends.
Professional leadership training.
Awareness of fllight safety, by seeing what was hard or easy to find on a search.
That last thing keeping in mine always what to do in my flying days now.
A number of friends and contacts with similar interst, which resulted in a lot of free flyin' trips.
An understanding that those who tend to hate CAP base that on some very specific limited negative experiences from those few bad apples in the organization.
Flights in simulators, C-130s, miltary helicopters here and in the UK, and more, all of which would be nearly impossible for your average joe civilian on the street.
All in all, I think I got a good deal. Put maybe $500 into it up to that age, and a few hours a week of my time.
I do stress that CAP is not in itself a flying club. Their 3 missions: Aerospace Education, Emergency Services, Cadet Program, can all allow some flying, but the flight time will be a result of supporting one of those missions.
Oh, it also has little benifits of allow access to military flying clubs. Locally, the navy club has a t-34 members can access, if you are into that kinda stuff. I found it fun back when the T-34 was $34 an hour wet, which was a few $$ cheaper than a 172 at the time.
Josh
