Plane with 110 crashes in Greece

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hmmm where was the captain? i can't imagine the captain going outside the cockpit unless there's an extra O2 tank somewhere that's not connected to the main O2 tank on the plane?

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One guess was he was dragged out of his seat by someone trying to get to the controls. Next guess, he was out of the cockpit when cabin depressurized, FO neglected to don mask, Captain didn't make it back inside or to a walkaround bottle.

BTW. There are O2 bottles used for walkaround when cabin pressure is lost.
 
A lot of speculation is focusing on the a/c, not just pressurization. Here are some quotes from the latest CNN article today:

"On Cyprus, several callers to radio and TV programs said they experienced severe air-conditioning problems on Helios jets in recent months, AP reported. Some callers said the cabin was freezing and the crew provided blankets, while others said it became unbearably hot."

"On Monday, the pilots and crew of Helios Airways were refusing to fly following reports that passengers complained that the doomed jet had experienced previous technical problems, AP reported."

"The pilots of the Helios jet had reported an air conditioning problem after takeoff, and a passenger sent a text message to his cousin saying it was freezing in the plane.

"'The pilot has turned blue,' the passenger said in the SMS message, Reuters quoted a Greek government spokesman as saying. 'Cousin farewell we're freezing.'"

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/08/15/greece.crash/index.html
 
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Some callers said the cabin was freezing and the crew provided blankets, while others said it became unbearably hot." .......................'Cousin farewell we're freezing.'"

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There are two kinds of "freezing on a commercial jet. The usual kind where the A/C system is pumping too much cold air. A typical issue not at all related to pressurization.

The second is the kind that happens after depressurization at the flight levels that allows -40 degree air into the cabin and results in bodies frozen solid if the airplane stays up there, as in Payne Stewart's crash and apparently this one.

Then this:Greek state television quoted the Cyprus transport minister as saying the plane had decompression problems in the past. But a Helios representative said the plane had "no problems and was serviced just last week."

If there's going to be an issue with the crew O2 bottle it is often after it has just come out of maintenance, in my experience anyway. Not to blame mechanics, but that's just a period where there are lots of opportunities to "do things" to the system that might not get put back right.

It had to have been a nightmare on that airplane. RIP
 
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A lot of speculation is focusing on the a/c, not just pressurization. Here are some quotes from the latest CNN article today:

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Same basic system. Pressurization is simply hot bleed air extracted from the engine's compressor section and then sent through the air conditioning "packs" to cool to the desired temp. No bleed air=no A/C=no pressurization.

Catastrophic structural failure could cause a rapid decompression and freezing temps at high altitude. One article I read mentioned if one passenger window had ruptured it would cause a rapid "D" and the aircraft would crash, period. This author probably isn't aware that large jets have one or more outflow valves that are as big as the windows that modulate to maintain pressurization and which can also be safely maintained on one of the two operating "packs".
 
Seems very odd - the pilots should have had their O2 on, they they wouldn't have passed out!!
How did the plane get from FL350 into a mountain in the 1st place? The pilots must have started a descent, no time to radio for help?
Frozen passengers - so obviously cabin heating failed and depressurisation occurred. There's some things here that just don't add up!
 
The thing I'm wondering about is this -- even if the pax were frozen, wouldn't the ensuing fire and heat thaw them out?

I'm thoroughly confused.
 
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The thing I'm wondering about is this -- even if the pax were frozen, wouldn't the ensuing fire and heat thaw them out?

I'm thoroughly confused.

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Not exactly; go try grilling or frying up some food from your freezer without thawing it out. You'll char the outside, and the center will still be frozen.
 
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I pull my cellphone out of my pocket, turn it on, wait for it to "boot up" and send a text message to my cousin explaining the situation.

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CNN is now saying that the guy who received the text message made the whole thing up, as his "cousin" wasn't on the passenger manifest...
 
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I pull my cellphone out of my pocket, turn it on, wait for it to "boot up" and send a text message to my cousin explaining the situation.

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CNN is now saying that the guy who received the text message made the whole thing up, as his "cousin" wasn't on the passenger manifest...

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Well that is certainly easier to believe.
 
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CNN is now saying that the guy who received the text message made the whole thing up, as his "cousin" wasn't on the passenger manifest...

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Figures.

I know a guy who said that he intentionally turned his cellphone on during approach and didn't get a bar of service until about 1000 AGL.

I think you may get some reliable service if you're chugging along at 90 knots, but 140-200 knots, probably not because of having to switch towers so quickly, but I'm no double-E.

I'm still trying to figure out how some of the 9/11 vicitims supposdly were talking to their loved ones via cellphone...
 
Police Raid Airline Offices

Police raid airline offices
Six were alive when plane crashed, coroner says

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/08/15/greece.crash.1437/index.html

The article mentions that crew refused to fly the plane yesterday as it was 'doomed.' There were obviously previous problems to a great degree, I dont recall many pilots opting out of flying due to superstitions....
confused.gif
 
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How did the plane get from FL350 into a mountain in the 1st place? The pilots must have started a descent, no time to radio for help?


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Autopilot on, no one at the controls and then plane runs out of fuel. Apparently the plane flew twice its scheduled time in the air before it crashed.

The latest also has it that the guy with the cousin and text message has been arrested for providing false info.
 
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The thing I'm wondering about is this -- even if the pax were frozen, wouldn't the ensuing fire and heat thaw them out?

I'm thoroughly confused.

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That is, Tony, if you are one that believes that the pax that originally boarded the flight are the same bodies that ended up in the wreck.

IMO, they're being held in the same place UA 93s pax are.........
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That is, Tony, if you are one that believes that the pax that originally boarded the flight are the same bodies that ended up in the wreck.

IMO, they're being held in the same place UA 93s pax are.........
ooo.gif


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Hey, you'd know! I think they're in Area 51, along with the pax and crew from the plane that "allegedly" hit the Pentagon!
 
3) Notwithstanding paragraph (c)(2) of this section, if for any reason at any time it is necessary for one pilot to leave his station at the controls of the airplane when operating at flight altitudes above flight level 250, the remaining pilot at the controls shall put on and use his oxygen mask until the other pilot has returned to his duty station

There but for the grace of god go I. About 2 weeks ago I had occasion to jumpseat on a flight from ORD to PDX. About halfway through the flight , at FL360, the First Officer left the flight deck to go to the bathroom, and the Captain did not put on his mask. And I sat there like a bump on a log not saying anything.
 
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About halfway through the flight , at FL360, the First Officer left the flight deck to go to the bathroom, and the Captain did not put on his mask. And I sat there like a bump on a log not saying anything.

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Is there a responsibility of you in the jump seat to say anything? First response I thought of was "Captain, if your not going to go on O2, mind if I do?"
 
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BTW. There are O2 bottles used for walkaround when cabin pressure is lost.

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