Plane off runway in Buffalo

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Homewrecker
Crews are working Monday morning to remove a plane that skidded off a runway at Buffalo Niagara International Airport late Sunday.

United Express 3796 originated at Washington Dulles International Airport. Upon landing in Buffalo at about 11:35 p.m. Sunday, it skidded off the Crosswind runway and traveled 350 to 400 feet inside a 1,000-foot grassy “safety area,” according to C. Douglas Hartmayer, a spokesman for the Niagara Frontier Transportation Authority.

No injuries were reported late Sunday among the 69 passengers and 4 crew members, Hartmayer said early Monday. After making their way down a stairway, they were taken by shuttle vans to the terminal.

“The main runway remained open,” Hartmayer said.

What caused the plane to skid off the runway will be investigated by the airline.

“I don’t have any of those details at this point,” Hartmayer said.
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Which one of you is gonna own this?
 
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I listened to the Live ATC......the Mesa part was pretty non-eventful. Sounds like they wanted vectors to wait the storm out. Cleared to land. Next thing they're cleared off the runway and they say they're in the grass.

More cringe-worth was a Go-Jet arriving into the area.....Tells approach they don't have gas for much deviating and they don't have an alternate....Then asks the approach to give them an alternate airport, approach suggests ROC. GoJet pilot tells approach to write a # down....Select option #1 and tell our dispatch that we're diverting, our ACARS is out. Nice dispatcher.....Sends them up to BUF with weather and no alternate and no ACARS at midnight. Sucks.
 
Baronman said:
I listened to the Live ATC......the Mesa part was pretty non-eventful. Sounds like they wanted vectors to wait the storm out. Cleared to land. Next thing they're cleared off the runway and they say they're in the grass.

More cringe-worth was a Go-Jet arriving into the area.....Tells approach they don't have gas for much deviating and they don't have an alternate....Then asks the approach to give them an alternate airport, approach suggests ROC. GoJet pilot tells approach to write a # down....Select option #1 and tell our dispatch that we're diverting, our ACARS is out. Nice dispatcher.....Sends them up to BUF with weather and no alternate and no ACARS at midnight. Sucks.
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And yet, that Captain signed off on the release.
 
When things go right the job of an airline pilot is pretty easy. When things hit the crapper, however, one must delve into the backpack of experience and start pulling things out. Sometimes it's recognizing problems before they arise or being ahead of events. More than once I've even had experienced FO's who had solutions better than mine. Even happened this past Friday on one of those flights were "if it can go wrong, it will go wrong" and the 8 year FO was on ball.
Were the events described above due to quick upgrades? Tough to tell at this point. I've seen experienced crews mess up. Just look what happened to the UPS recently.
 
Baronman said:
I listened to the Live ATC......the Mesa part was pretty non-eventful. Sounds like they wanted vectors to wait the storm out. Cleared to land. Next thing they're cleared off the runway and they say they're in the grass.

More cringe-worth was a Go-Jet arriving into the area.....Tells approach they don't have gas for much deviating and they don't have an alternate....Then asks the approach to give them an alternate airport, approach suggests ROC. GoJet pilot tells approach to write a # down....Select option #1 and tell our dispatch that we're diverting, our ACARS is out. Nice dispatcher.....Sends them up to BUF with weather and no alternate and no ACARS at midnight. Sucks.
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As a dispatcher, crap like this irks me. While stressful at times, our job is not that hard. What do ya say you do here?
 
PlaneFan82 said:
As a dispatcher, crap like this irks me. While stressful at times, our job is not that hard. What do ya say you do here?
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Storms were coming across the area for much of the evening.

I wouldn't get sent to an airport with TS, no ALT, no gas to deviate and no ACARS.

Sure have ATC let company know.
 
Baronman said:
I listened to the Live ATC......the Mesa part was pretty non-eventful. Sounds like they wanted vectors to wait the storm out. Cleared to land. Next thing they're cleared off the runway and they say they're in the grass.

More cringe-worth was a Go-Jet arriving into the area.....Tells approach they don't have gas for much deviating and they don't have an alternate....Then asks the approach to give them an alternate airport, approach suggests ROC. GoJet pilot tells approach to write a # down....Select option #1 and tell our dispatch that we're diverting, our ACARS is out. Nice dispatcher.....Sends them up to BUF with weather and no alternate and no ACARS at midnight. Sucks.
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ATC, will you fly my airplane for me please?
 
Baronman said:
Storms were coming across the area for much of the evening.

I wouldn't get sent to an airport with TS, no ALT, no gas to deviate and no ACARS. .
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Not if you don't absolutely have to. It's not like you're fuel critical, holding for the runway to get cleared at Diego Garcia and your only viable divert is 3000 nm away.
 
MikeD said:
Not if you don't absolutely have to. It's not like you're fuel critical, holding for the runway to get cleared at Diego Garcia and your only viable divert is 3000 nm away.
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True. But this isn't the military, this is boring Part 121 operations. :)

MikeD said:
ATC, will you fly my airplane for me please?
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:bang::bang::bang:

PlaneFan82 said:
As a dispatcher, crap like this irks me. While stressful at times, our job is not that hard. What do ya say you do here?
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You guys get workload saturated/tired/etc. just like we do. That's why there's joint Captain and dispatcher authority, with the guy or gal on the left having the final authority as to the operation of the flight. Given enough eyes, all problems become obvious.

(I have been dispatched to an airport where the ILS was out of service, the ceiling was 100' above the MDA for the VOR approach, with no additional fuel, and the nearest place that was acceptable to go, weather-wise, if something went horribly pear-shaped was 100 miles over mountainous terrain. It happens. (We got extra gas.))

My own personal goal this summer is to take a harder look at NOTAMs.

Blackhawk said:
When things go right the job of an airline pilot is pretty easy. When things hit the crapper, however, one must delve into the backpack of experience and start pulling things out. Sometimes it's recognizing problems before they arise or being ahead of events. More than once I've even had experienced FO's who had solutions better than mine. Even happened this past Friday on one of those flights were "if it can go wrong, it will go wrong" and the 8 year FO was on ball.
Were the events described above due to quick upgrades? Tough to tell at this point. I've seen experienced crews mess up. Just look what happened to the UPS recently.
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Oh yeah.

That accident report made the little hairs on my hands stand up. I was actually thinking about it last night, briefly, on the way into San Diego on the localizer approach here. Right modes, right sequencing, etc., were verified.
 
MikeD said:
ATC, will you fly my airplane for me please?
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I guess that was what irked me...."Can you please give me an alternate airport?"

Of course I have no idea where this crew is from or where they typically fly....But on a crappy night with little extra gas I have a pretty good clue before talking to approach at least one or two other airports nearby that I could use. Fortunately BUF has ROC/SYR/YYZ all nearby.
 
Baronman said:
Storms were coming across the area for much of the evening.

I wouldn't get sent to an airport with TS, no ALT, no gas to deviate and no ACARS.

Sure have ATC let company know.
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Definitely give some gas, definitely an alternate---possibly 2 --1 on either side of the line. I can deal with the no acars----it's a sad reality but we typically cannot ask for a swap because of a faulty ACARS unit. Luckily my current shop has SATCOM so it's a non issue. Additionally, why wouldn't that crew have asked for an alternate? Both the dispatcher and PIC are jointly responsible for the release of that flight.
 
Baronman said:
I guess that was what irked me...."Can you please give me an alternate airport?"

Of course I have no idea where this crew is from or where they typically fly....But on a crappy night with little extra gas I have a pretty good clue before talking to approach at least one or two other airports nearby that I could use. Fortunately BUF has ROC/SYR/YYZ all nearby.
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I actually can understand that, if you don't know where your line and diversionary stations are. (I don't LIKE it, but I get it.)

I do wish I had a diversionary airport map up front. Basically, a map of all places ~6000' (or maybe even shorter when everything in the stopping department is working properly) long where I can get a jetbridge, maybe the paramedics if I need them, and Jet A. (I have the Alternates manual and the line stations manual, but I don't have (beyond a knowledge of where I am, and where I've been before at any given time) a map of these places.
 
Baronman said:
More cringe-worth was a Go-Jet arriving into the area.....Tells approach they don't have gas for much deviating and they don't have an alternate....Then asks the approach to give them an alternate airport, approach suggests ROC. GoJet pilot tells approach to write a # down....Select option #1 and tell our dispatch that we're diverting, our ACARS is out. Nice dispatcher.....Sends them up to BUF with weather and no alternate and no ACARS at midnight. Sucks.
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Good thing we ALWAYS had ACARs. Oh, wait. We haven't. What in the world did we do back then???
 
PlaneFan82 said:
Definitely give some gas, definitely an alternate---possibly 2 --1 on either side of the line. I can deal with the no acars----it's a sad reality but we typically cannot ask for a swap because of a faulty ACARS unit. Luckily my current shop has SATCOM so it's a non issue. Additionally, why wouldn't that crew have asked for an alternate? Both the dispatcher and PIC are jointly responsible for the release of that flight.
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I agree no ACARS is fine...Not a show stopper. But it's added ammunition if I get any pushback about adding fuel or an alternate.

Why no ALT? Who knows. In my experience especially at a regional if the TAF didn't go below the 1-2-3 rule there was rarely an alternate added. And if Dispatch didn't take a look at the route and see the weather, well then we were dispatched probably with 45Min plus the typical 15Min they always added. Thunderstorms in the TAF frequently show 2000' ceilings and not the worst VIS however they definitely (probably more than anything) affect our ability to operate in and out of a field.

I hate to say but this scenario plays out pretty frequently at regionals especially down across TX and up in the northeast where lots of weather passes through. You're quick turning all day at one of United's horribly outfitted hubs, trying to find a working kiosk to get your weather. Dealing with all the headaches of IAD, and you don't spend as much time as you should have checking the WX. It's happened to me before.....Learned from it.
 
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