Plane Crash in W. Alaska, 11 Reported Aboard

Roger Roger said:
To most Van drivers that immediately suggests a possible cause.
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I submit that anyone in the business for some time, it is suggestive. Really sucks if it were true. I am sure they will be able to pin this one down with a fair amount of certainty.
 
Suggestive of what? I'm not following what you guys are putting down.

Control surface failure?
Pilot incapacitation?
Stall/spin?
Large bird destroying the tail?
Tail plane icing?

I can think of lots of things, but nothing comes to my mind as being "suggested", but then again I've never flown a 208.

:confused:
 
I am responding to the comments about the "suggested" posts above, and have no idea if this is what caused this particular accident. I have not checked the weather and am not sure if it was favorable for icing or not. But....They fly like a cinderblock when they ice up. Underpowered, bleed air pneumatic boots issues (lines icing up), too many "things" hanging off of the airplane to collect ice, and no ice protection on the horizontal stabilizer.
 
SteveC said:
Suggestive of what? I'm not following what you guys are putting down.

Control surface failure?
Pilot incapacitation?
Stall/spin?
Large bird destroying the tail?
Tail plane icing?

I can think of lots of things, but nothing comes to my mind as being "suggested", but then again I've never flown a 208.

:confused:
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The airplane does not handle icing very well. You may be aware that there is an AD against the aircraft requiring recurrent training, among other things, for operating it in icing conditions. In particular, if the aircraft has collected ground ice and is heavy (i.e, 9 passengers) it apparently has a tendency to stop flying when the flaps are retracted. At least one of the reports I read reported ice fog in the area when the aircraft went down. There have been 2 nasty Caravan accidents up here due to that reason. The Penair crash in 2003 in particular springs to mind, as that aircraft also had 10 people aboard and also was said to have hit the ground in essentially a level flight attitude-the passengers in this recent crash are reported to have said the "aircraft just stopped flying".

I'll probably get crucified by the "wait for the NTSB!!!" crowd but as an Alaska Caravan driver that is what immediately comes to mind reading the information that has been released about this accident.
 
Sad day for van drivers, and thoughts go to Era, their crew, and passengers. Hopefully we will all be able to learn from this. Caravans get sluggish when heavy, high AOA, and low airspeed. But, they sure can haul a load. Anyways, not to start a pro/con debate on the caravans, but good luck to all you winter weather flyers.
 
Derg said:
Authorities say a plane carrying a reported 11 people crashed Friday night near the western Alaska village of Saint Marys.

Alaska State Troopers spokeswoman Megan Peters says "there are survivors and we are working our best to get them help." She said she had no confirmation of any fatalities.

National Transportation Safety Board investigator Clint Johnson said the Cessna 208 was an Era Alaska flight. A man who answered the phone at Era Alaska's Saint Marys office said he couldn't provide any information. An Associated Press call to Era headquarters was not immediately returned.

Johnson says he believes a rescue crew from the village was the first to reach the crash site about four miles away. Saint Marys is about 470 miles from Anchorage.

The Cessna 208 had been reported missing on a flight from Bethel to Saint Mary's.
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Talked to my buddy/ former student up in AK. He and his fam are wired into aviation up there. They are hearing CFIT in crappy Wx. Probably icing, too, given the Wx.
I contacted him 'cause I saw it was Hageland/Era. Hageland/Era is out of UNK, near where I used to live and work. The News was quoting Hagleland's President, "Jim Hickerson". I kinda coughed my drink through my nose when I saw that. I knew a Jim Hickerson when I was up there. He was a money changer, er, Administrator at the Bering Strait School District, but as far as I know he has zero aviation experience. UNK is a small Eskimo village, so I couldn't imagine that there could possibly be two Jim Hickersons in UNK. Turns out it's the same guy. This strikes me as extremely odd. But the bush is an odd place, so maybe it's normal. I could say a lot about this dude, but I'll refrain on a public board. Let's just say that given other discussions recently regarding the qualities of corporate leaders, I'm completely unsurprised that someone with no industry experience ends up in charge.
 
My immediate thought after hearing about the wreck was icing, but I didn't want to say anything as I know what it's like to lose family due to an aircraft wreck so close to Christmas. Praying for the families of those involved.
Roger Roger said:
The airplane does not handle icing very well. You may be aware that there is an AD against the aircraft requiring recurrent training, among other things, for operating it in icing conditions. In particular, if the aircraft has collected ground ice and is heavy (i.e, 9 passengers) it apparently has a tendency to stop flying when the flaps are retracted. At least one of the reports I read reported ice fog in the area when the aircraft went down. There have been 2 nasty Caravan accidents up here due to that reason. The Penair crash in 2003 in particular springs to mind, as that aircraft also had 10 people aboard and also was said to have hit the ground in essentially a level flight attitude-the passengers in this recent crash are reported to have said the "aircraft just stopped flying".

I'll probably get crucified by the "wait for the NTSB!!!" crowd but as an Alaska Caravan driver that is what immediately comes to mind reading the information that has been released about this accident.
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Boyington said:
I stand corrected. I didn't know that they all had these now.
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Always have since they've been booted..
I attended an annual icing seminar with Hansen a few years ago. He was a good guy and provided a lot of good discussion and tips to the entire class.....RIP....
 
While everyone speculates keep in mind the pilot was a highly experienced bush guy (17,000+hrs of AK) and had oodles and oodles of time on the van, in AK wx, with big loads, and IIRC he had lived in St Mary's for years. Having been in a few airplanes with him I can testify to his competency, skill and experience in that environment. I'm not saying he was immune to an accident, I'm saying he wasn't a slouch at his job. I have met two other people in my life that are qualified to carry that guy's headset. Picking up what I'm laying down here?

Whatever the cause may be, I'm going to hold my tongue until the people that know the circumstances tell me first hand. Keep it classy guys, there are people on the board who are very close to this accident and this isn't the time to launch into system effectiveness on the van or hypothetical icing scenarios IMO. Let's not hang him (or the plane) on hearsay.
 
Cheyenne said:
While everyone speculates keep in mind the pilot was a highly experienced bush guy (17,000+hrs of AK) and had oodles and oodles of time on the van, in AK wx, with big loads, and IIRC he had lived in St Mary's for years. Having been in a few airplanes with him I can testify to his competency, skill and experience in that environment. I'm not saying he was immune to an accident, I'm saying he wasn't a slouch at his job. I have met two other people in my life that are qualified to carry that guy's headset. Picking up what I'm laying down here?
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That is exactly why this profession is a somewhat scary/uneasy one. You can do everything right for 17,000+ hours and just have one random thing go wrong at a random time on a random day and all those previous accident free hours mean nothing. Here's to assuming the pilot was at the top of his game and the deck just became stacked against him to the point of no return. Condolences to those lost and all affected by this tragedy.
 
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