PLan b

Having a degree in something means little without actual experience.

Without actual experience, networking is your only key into your "plan b."

Even with significant amounts of non-aviation experience it is tough out there to land a quality job. Sadly, being an airline pilot qualifies you for very little in the real world.

And for Matt (FlyChicaga) there's plenty to be excited about out there in non-aviation land. For someone who is positive, goes the extra mile, and is ambitious like you - you'd be surprised what might interest you.
 
meritflyer said:
I manage a 22 state territory for a Fortune 500 company. We value experience and education greatly. However, if someone thinks a business degree outweighs solid experience, they're severely mistaken - at least where I work.
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PA wouldnt be one of them, would they?:)
 
This is a bit off topic but probably worth the discussion: what skills do you think being a pilot brings to the table for non-aviation jobs? Say you lose your medical tomorrow, what assets could you bring to your new non-flying career?

Ability to multi-task, attention to detail, dealing with high stress levels at times, come to mind off the top of my head. Any other ideas?
 
Number1atNumber2 said:
This is a bit off topic but probably worth the discussion: what skills do you think being a pilot brings to the table for non-aviation jobs? Say you lose your medical tomorrow, what assets could you bring to your new non-flying career?

Ability to multi-task, attention to detail, dealing with high stress levels at times, come to mind off the top of my head. Any other ideas?
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That is the problem with experience as a pilot... It is a very narrow set of skills that seem great when you write it out like that but in the business world if you don't have prior sales experience, management experience, word, excel, and powerpoint skills then your skill set is too narrow.

And I know alot of people think that putting "Flight Instructor/Aviation sales" on a resume shows that you have prior sales experience, well you will most likely be in for a rude awakening as that just doesn't count in the HR world. When I was looking for a job last winter, most of the bites I got were from things like Police Dispatcher, other aviation related jobs, government work, and other jobs that don't really give you any experience to help you move on and up into other great positions. Sure some of those jobs pay OK but most of them just can not propel you to anything other than supervisor if you hang in there long enough.

THE KEY is to find a job that will give you skills that will let you move up the ladder and into new things that make you more well rounded and marketable to not just your current company, but many others out there too.

Remember, there are NO seniority lists in the real world, if another company is offering more money you can go there and not have to worry about starting over.
 
Hmmm...have a couple of business plans in the works for a couple of ideas, but would need to align some capital first. Real estate being one of them.

Cop has crossed my mind as well.

Moving back home and taking over the family business (construction).

Not to mention a couple of part 91 local outfits that would do well enough. Who knows though. Multiple options are always good. :)
 
This thread is depressing! As for me...I downsized my detective agency to be a pilot. It's down to a couple of corporate clients which while I am not at liberty to say what I do for them, it only takes a couple of hours a week and brings in extra loot every month. If I had to I can re-expand. Luckily, I didn't race off to the airline world and the 135 Charter company I work for are doing well.
 
You know I realized that over the years even though my dream was always to fly professionally as plan A...it has all along been a plan B as I placed priority on getting a good education first. I already have my B.S. and M.S. and I just got my CMEL rating and for me the best thing to do with the current state of the industry is to instruct for a while.

Secondly, I just had my annual review at my desk job and my boss said he would pay for my MBA. No airline will do that for me. So now I have to think do I just want to be able to fly the plane or to have the skills to run the airline as well someday.

Thirdly, most pilots I speak to, the happiest ones i.e. don't rely solely on their incomes from being a pilot. They have their own businesses on the side and I need to do the same as I have a wife to think about as well.
 
Sales is a whole different animal. Employers do care what your education level is, all they care about is if you can sell. Anybody that was born with the talent to sell has the potential to make ALOT of money in this world no matter what your education level is.
 
Ian J said:
Having a degree in something means little without actual experience.

Without actual experience, networking is your only key into your "plan b."
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True. Plus, if you've got a degree in something like accounting, business or management for your fall back, you'll probably be in for a rude awakening. In addition to zero experience, the people you're competing with that also have no experience have a Masters in those areas. Why? Because it's NOT their fall back. This is why I rebel so hard against the "get a non-aviation degree just in case" mentality. Why put yourself through a degree field you hate just to get a degree you a) may never use and b) if you have to use it probably won't be competitive in the job market. Sure, the 250 hour guys have the legal qualifications to fly RJs, but in today's market, would they get hired? IMO, the same goes for guys that got those fancy degrees as a "fall back." Yeah, they've got the minimum qualifications, but are they competitive?


Plan C- Two years down the road, be a hotel assistant manager in Orlando somewhere I'd hope. This is why I am not going for an aviation related degree.
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You don't even need a degree for this one. My wife worked hotels in Orlando, and just about every assistant manager she worked for worked their way up through one of the hotel areas. Front desk seemed to have a better jump on housekeeping, but even food service was a track to assistant manager if you were in the right place at the right time. Don't let UCF sell you a "Hospitality Management" degree when you could already be on the track simply by working at a hotel. BTW, I was on one of the focus groups that helped design that degree back when I was at Sea World. I wasn't impressed.
 
The discussion about having a 'Plan B' and experience in something else has been a good one but what scares/surprises me is the number of people saying "my plan B is to go back to 135" or "I'll just go back to instructing" - I don't want to rain on anyone's parade but if the industry gets back to a truly bad state and the economy goes into a real (not media created) recession, those fall back flying jobs aren't going to be automatically available - you're going to be competing with thousands and thousands of other out of work pilots for the few flying (any type of flying) jobs available. Those of us that have been around for a while remember the times when you had to signifcant amounts of experience to get even a second look from employers. Now (or at least in the recent past) 500 hours (or less) gets you into a regional jet - I remember when you wouldn't even get looked at for a crappy instructing job at 500 hours.


I know that I sound all "doom and gloom" but I'm actually very positive and think that things are going to begin to turn around over the next year plus... I guess what I'm trying to say is that all of you that have been in this industry for 10ish or less years and think that these are the bad times are in for a rude, rude awakening if things really do go south.

Jason
 
Right now I have no motivation to move again (I've lived in 4 states in the last year and I'm done). The local CFI jobs are pathetic in pay (well <$1000/m). I'd probably go back to my college job in a call center, hopefully get hired back as a supervisor making 2x my FO salary, and wait for recall.
 
meritflyer said:
Not the best profession at the present time..
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That is why I want to do it.

I figure that it is such a crappy time to go into real estate not to many people are doing so. With that in mind, I figure I will have a better ability to find a higher end broker to work for. Once you get the license it takes a few years to get your brokerage license and more commission.

With that in mind, get it now, establish myself, network, prove myself when times are tough, and then when the market turns around, hopefully, I will be in good shape.

That is my plan.
 
Yep...my wife works for a college that has real estate pre-licensing courses and their enrollment is way down. The real estate market, just like the airline industry, will eventually rebound and it will benefit you to be qualified/experienced/ready when it does start to rebound.
 
Plan A for me right now is flying for a foreign carrier. Failing that, and assuming a US industry collapse big enough to affect me... who knows. Given my personality it'd probably have to be one of those quirky/cool jobs that most people would do a double take when you tell them.
 
Jason said:
The discussion about having a 'Plan B' and experience in something else has been a good one but what scares/surprises me is the number of people saying "my plan B is to go back to 135" or "I'll just go back to instructing" - I don't want to rain on anyone's parade but if the industry gets back to a truly bad state and the economy goes into a real (not media created) recession, those fall back flying jobs aren't going to be automatically available - you're going to be competing with thousands and thousands of other out of work pilots for the few flying (any type of flying) jobs available. Those of us that have been around for a while remember the times when you had to signifcant amounts of experience to get even a second look from employers. Now (or at least in the recent past) 500 hours (or less) gets you into a regional jet - I remember when you wouldn't even get looked at for a crappy instructing job at 500 hours.


I know that I sound all "doom and gloom" but I'm actually very positive and think that things are going to begin to turn around over the next year plus... I guess what I'm trying to say is that all of you that have been in this industry for 10ish or less years and think that these are the bad times are in for a rude, rude awakening if things really do go south.

Jason
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For those that are saying that , that still counts as PLAN A ...Flying for a living.
 
Kingairer said:
For those that are saying that , that still counts as PLAN A ...Flying for a living.
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Exactly... it's ok to look for a more stable flying job but if you're going to have a plan B make sure that it's at least a realistic Plan B.

If anyone wants to get out of the cockpit but stay in aviation and be in the training world, let me know.... it just so happens that I know of a "simulator based training provider" that has a midwest location that is going to triple in size over the next 3 years.

Jason
 
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