Piper J3 makes emergency landing near Sandia Labs, pilot taken away in cuffs.

mshunter said:
Engine failure to a landing in a field is PC to be arrested? No, he was detained in handcuffs for questioning. I have a clean record, but have been put in handcuffs before and brought to a station for questioning, a loooooong time ago. Thankfully, it was a mistake on their part. But arrested I was not. I was "placed in handcuffs for our safety and yours. You're not under arrest. We just want to talk to you."
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I'm as supportive of law enforcement as the next guy, but if you put the cuffs on me, I will consider myself under arrest and the only answer to any questions directed to me will be "I refuse to answer any questions without an attorney present."
 
tonyw said:
You can take the title of meth capital of the world away from us anytime you want it. =)
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Actually Oklahoma City is the current meth capital, followed by Tucson I believe. In Vegas, anything east of Paradise down past Boulder Highway is all meth. You can literally see the social change as you drive. Odd looking people on mopeds and bikes at odd hours, and the further you head east, the worse it gets. Sure, a lot of people ride bikes but not usually with heavy jackets and baggy jeans in 80 to 100 degree weather.
 
tonyw said:
I'm as supportive of law enforcement as the next guy, but if you put the cuffs on me, I will consider myself under arrest and the only answer to any questions directed to me will be "I refuse to answer any questions without an attorney present."
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It was for vandalism and I had nothing to hide. I was young, dumb, couldn't afford an attorney and wasn't under arrest. Had I played that game, you can rest assured I would have been until either an attorney clears it up, or they found the right guy. IMO, attorneys are for people that need them. If you've done nothing, you shouldn't need one.
 
mshunter said:
It was for vandalism and I had nothing to hide. I was young, dumb, couldn't afford an attorney and wasn't under arrest. Had I played that game, you can rest assured I would have been until either an attorney clears it up, or they found the right guy. IMO, attorneys are for people that need them. If you've done nothing, you shouldn't need one.
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Man, do I ever agree with the "shouldn't" part of this statement. That's how it's supposed to work.

Unfortunately, if you are the wrong color, poor, or both during a Sherrif's, Judicial, or DA election year, or some combination of those factors, it doesn't apply as well. I agree that it should. But it doesn't often enough.
 
mshunter said:
It was for vandalism and I had nothing to hide. I was young, dumb, couldn't afford an attorney and wasn't under arrest. Had I played that game, you can rest assured I would have been until either an attorney clears it up, or they found the right guy. IMO, attorneys are for people that need them. If you've done nothing, you shouldn't need one.
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Just curious; a few questions if you don't mind:
1) Were you placed in handcuffs and taken to the station in a patrol car (or other vehicle under the control of LE)?
2) Were you read (recited) the Miranda Warning (i.e.You have the right to remain silent....etc)?
3) Were you questioned about a crime or criminal activity?
And most importantly:
4) Did you feel that you were free to get up and leave at any time during the questioning?
 
dustoff17 said:
Just curious; a few questions if you don't mind:
1) Were you placed in handcuffs and taken to the station in a patrol car (or other vehicle under the control of LE)?
2) Were you read (recited) the Miranda Warning (i.e.You have the right to remain silent....etc)?
3) Were you questioned about a crime or criminal activity?
And most importantly:
4) Did you feel that you were free to get up and leave at any time during the questioning?
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Number 4 is the key for me. If I am free to leave at any time I want during the questioning, then I will answer questions. If they tell me, no, you can't leave until you answer these questions, then I will act as if I am under arrest -- I'm being detained and can't leave -- and will assert my right to an attorney.

https://www.ohiobar.org/ForPublic/Resources/LawFactsPamphlets/Pages/LawFactsPamphlet-21.aspx
 
dustoff17 said:
Just curious; a few questions if you don't mind:
1) Were you placed in handcuffs and taken to the station in a patrol car (or other vehicle under the control of LE)?
2) Were you read (recited) the Miranda Warning (i.e.You have the right to remain silent....etc)?
3) Were you questioned about a crime or criminal activity?
And most importantly:
4) Did you feel that you were free to get up and leave at any time during the questioning?
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Just a point of order...you do not have to be Mirandized on every arrest.
 
dustoff17 said:
Just curious; a few questions if you don't mind:
1) Were you placed in handcuffs and taken to the station in a patrol car (or other vehicle under the control of LE)?
2) Were you read (recited) the Miranda Warning (i.e.You have the right to remain silent....etc)?
3) Were you questioned about a crime or criminal activity?
And most importantly:
4) Did you feel that you were free to get up and leave at any time during the questioning?
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1) yes, cuffed and taken to the station
2)no. Very clearly stated that I wasn't under arrest, "You're not under arrest, we just want to talk to you."
3)yes. I matched the description of a guy that someone reported who was tagging.
4)no, I was being "detained." I know that because I asked if I told them I was going to be late for work. I was giving them an attitude, which was why I was in cuffs, and asked why I was being cuffed. His words IIRC were "I don't care for your lip, so were going to cuff you for your safety and ours."

I was walking out of the donut shop, coffee and breakfast in hand when they came through the parking lot as I was walking to my truck. I was just about in my truck when the came racing up on me and jumped out(2 guys in the car). It startled me so I started off lippy with them. That set the tone for the encounter, and I honestly think the only reason I was taken to the station was because I was being very aggressive with them. But it was made very clear to me I wasn't being arrested. I was still living with my folks at the time and said to call them for proof. This was before cell phones were as prominent as they are today. I had a pager at the time(I think I was all of 18 or 19). So, they brought me down to the station, searched my truck where they stopped me for rattle cans, and called home to see if I was lying. After was all said and done, I got an apology, and was brought back to my truck. He told me on the way back, "I'm sorry for the trouble, here is my card if your boss tries to give you crap for being late. Have him call the station if you need to."
 
mshunter said:
1) yes, cuffed and taken to the station
2)no. Very clearly stated that I wasn't under arrest, "You're not under arrest, we just want to talk to you."
3)yes. I matched the description of a guy that someone reported who was tagging.
4)no, I was being "detained." I know that because I asked if I told them I was going to be late for work. I was giving them an attitude, which was why I was in cuffs, and asked why I was being cuffed. His words IIRC were "I don't care for your lip, so were going to cuff you for your safety and ours."

I was walking out of the donut shop, coffee and breakfast in hand when they came through the parking lot as I was walking to my truck. I was just about in my truck when the came racing up on me and jumped out(2 guys in the car). It startled me so I started off lippy with them. That set the tone for the encounter, and I honestly think the only reason I was taken to the station was because I was being very aggressive with them. But it was made very clear to me I wasn't being arrested. I was still living with my folks at the time and said to call them for proof. This was before cell phones were as prominent as they are today. I had a pager at the time(I think I was all of 18 or 19). So, they brought me down to the station, searched my truck where they stopped me for rattle cans, and called home to see if I was lying. After was all said and done, I got an apology, and was brought back to my truck. He told me on the way back, "I'm sorry for the trouble, here is my card if your boss tries to give you crap for being late. Have him call the station if you need to."
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Yeah, OK.
It's in the past, glad it worked out for the best
 
tonyw said:
Number 4 is the key for me. If I am free to leave at any time I want during the questioning, then I will answer questions. If they tell me, no, you can't leave until you answer these questions, then I will act as if I am under arrest -- I'm being detained and can't leave -- and will assert my right to an attorney.

https://www.ohiobar.org/ForPublic/Resources/LawFactsPamphlets/Pages/LawFactsPamphlet-21.aspx
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Save yourself the hassle and don't answer questions at all.
 
It says requested, not required.

At the Burger Death, I request that they hold the onions and pickles on my Jumbo Charred Mammal Flesh of Doom, yet somehow they still appear. Special orders do upset them, apparently.

Richman
 
Richman said:
It says requested, not required.

At the Burger Death, I request that they hold the onions and pickles on my Jumbo Charred Mammal Flesh of Doom, yet somehow they still appear. Special orders do upset them, apparently.

Richman
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Ha!

You need to guest-write for "The Oatmeal"!
 
SeanD said:
It sure is. Especially drizzled on a shawarma pita. It sure beats coffee.
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Dammit man, it's like you can see in my head.

I'm sitting here in AMS dying for a shawarma from the Mesir Doner across the street and drinking an overpriced Sanka.
 
Derg said:
Dammit man, it's like you can see in my head.

I'm sitting here in AMS dying for a shawarma from the Mesir Doner across the street and drinking an overpriced Sanka.
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Next you will walk outside and bump into a Dutchmen who is a complete dbag.
 
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