Piper Chieftain being considered

MNFlyboy

MNFlyboy

Well-Known Member
To all of you twin prop drivers, a company has asked me to look into a corporate aircraft for them that's very economical, but can take 4-6 people 450nm one way. They are looking to pay $2000-$3000 for the round trip, so that pretty much leaves it to pistons and I think the Chieftain is the way to go. Any comments would be appreciated about it's maintenance charactheristics, the Panther conversion (pros-cons?), your personal experiences managing, maintaining, and flying the Chieftain.

Just want to make sure I'm getting them the right airplane.

I've also considered a C402, but those are harder to come buy. The only thing that would possibly work on the Beech side would be an old 18 or Queen Air, again, not too excited about those.

Thanks for your inputs!
 
C414 or C421. Don't be afraid of the geared engines on the 421. Pressurization is a wonderful tool to have.


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I'd look at an aerostar before a pa31. The 31 has a fat wing and is quite slow for it's fuel consumption.
 
You did not mention what the purchase price limit is. A PC-12 will do the trip you described right around the $3,000 mark, round trip. A TBM 850 (and some models of the 700) will do it for a little less than that and will do it faster, but both of these are going to be a good bit more to put on line than a piston twin.

Yes, a Navajo will do the trip you described. My 2 biggest beefs against the Navajo is the horrible single engine performance (why pay for 2 engines when the second one is not going to help.), and that there are a few parts that are getting quite difficult to find when they break. The airplane is long in the tooth, and the fleet has been well worn by the cargo industry.

The geared engines on the C421 are what they are, but as long as you go in knowing that they are the weak point in the system and take care of them accordingly, you will be ok. The C414 is pitifully underpowered airplane. Although, I really dislike RAM, the RAM conversions have turned them into an acceptable airplane. The interior layout on the 400 series leaves a lot to be desired, and most people wind up removing the seat by the door.

I love Beechcraft, but you are right. The cabin class twin piston market was a giant hole in their lineup.
 
Yeah PC-12 would probably my pick of platforms, but acquisition points are nearer the $2M mark and we need to keep it under $400k. The aerostar just doesn't seem to have the space that I think we need. 421 could be good, plus the pressurization is a plus, maybe if it didn't come with the cabinetry and then the 5th and 6th seats would be less of an inconvenience.

What's the word on a 402/404?
 
MNFlyboy said:
Yeah PC-12 would probably my pick of platforms, but acquisition points are nearer the $2M mark and we need to keep it under $400k. The aerostar just doesn't seem to have the space that I think we need. 421 could be good, plus the pressurization is a plus, maybe if it didn't come with the cabinetry and then the 5th and 6th seats would be less of an inconvenience.
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That would have been useful information to mention in your original post, because it definitely changes the equation. :)

Agreed on the Aerostar!
 
Sorry! I knew I forgot something. Now it's out there, original posts about the piston twins are still pretty relevant, but it certainly does cut out most turbo-props.
 
jhugz said:
Aerostars have no useful load. I'd second a 421.
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Actually, in cargo configuration, 4 180lb adults, a pilot, 200lbs of bags and full tanks(1092 useable) puts you right at max gross in the pa31-350. Most of them are in the 2300lb range useful. That's right at what the aerostar has, especially the later ones. But the aerostar will go at least 30 kts faster on the same burn.
 
I am not sure what the status of Comelmill's STC is. Colemill has had financial issues for a few years, the airport was flooded in 2010, and the founder died a few months ago.

If you decide to recommend the Navajo route, in my opinion the best option is the Navajo C/R (short body) with the 350 hp engines. A Panther conversion is not necessary and actually can hurt performance in some areas. The biggest gains from available mods will be seen from the BLR VG's and the American Aviation intercoolers .
 
You can pick up a Cheyenne (PA31T) for around 400k. Our charter rate for the Cheyenne is $975/hr, so it can be operated for less than that. I've done that sort of trip several times in a Cheyenne with 5+1, 2000# fuel, 450# fuel burn per hour @ 230 kts at FL250. Might be stretching the budget, but would be an entry level turbine.
 
KDoersom said:
C414 or C421. Don't be afraid of the geared engines on the 421. Pressurization is a wonderful tool to have.


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I agree with the pressurization. Having the option to climb and not have your pax sucking from tubes is nice. A C414 or C421B would fit your mission well. The B model have more useful than the C.
 
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