Pinnacle/Colgan/Mesaba Final Ruling Docs
- Thread starter derg
- Start date
BE19Pilot
Flying a Box
Absolutely! I enjoyed it also...Passed my line check the following day and got a greaser in YYZ. Would love to come up and visit soon!
CEWLGUY
Well-Known Member
I agree
GlenA
Senior Chicken Counter
obviously the Commies
I would say most of the guys in the top half of the Colgan list did. People like Cassidy, Filippov, Board, and White (for example) kept roughly the same relative seniority and are now literally a thousand #s above people who were hired at the exact same time (early 08) at XJ.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Hehe, and 700 in front of some 07 hires.
Maybe the next time it'll go better for us, who knows. Just get used to being screwed when you are in this industry. Sometimes airlines go worst to first through no actions of their own, sometimes the reverse happens and they did everything right. We've all got jobs at the end of the day, and we can all expect the following; more change to come. The law of big numbers (may be made up for all I know) says you'll catch a break someday.
One thing is for sure, I sure wish I would have known enough to goto Mesaba in the first place rather than wasting all that time at Colgan. I certainly would have been a lot better off with an '06 hire date after this merger than my '07 date. That's what I get for doing no research.
flyer8
Well-Known Member
Well, guys at colgan that were hired two weeks after the aforementioned people ended up 700 some numbers below them.
Every single group has big winners and losers from this award.
WIPilot
Well-Known Member
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Looking at the list, it appears that you're right, but that's not what Bloch actually says in his explanation. I can't figure out what exactly he did.
flyer8
Well-Known Member
Bloch seems to disagree.
meyers9163
Well-Known Member
Feel free to make some unwarranted demands of me and I'll gladly tell you the same.
I suppose that I am kind of immature for my age though. *shrug*
Or just ignore it? No instead you act as childish as the person that posted that comment with one huge exception. He was affected by this ruling. Yet your response as a moderator seems at the very least inappropriate and almost as a snide remark which others get infractions for.
The Juice
Well-Known Member
It is a ratio in each group. When Bloch mentions sorted by DOH he is refering to DOH within each airline. This had to be done in order to satisfy the requirement that you can not hop seniority in your own airline on the new list from where you were. Otherwise, for example, when they integrate Saab CAs in group 3 they would actually place pilots who are Saab caotains without regard to DOH within their own airline. Since this goes against the policy those spots are integrated as DOH and assumes that every pilot would hold the highest position their seniority could hold at their airline.
Clear as mud??
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Excellent! Thanks for the explanation. That definitely wasn't clear within his award at all. Usually they're much clearer in laying out the ratios that are used in their awards. In that case, this award is basically identical to the DAL/NWA award. Category and status with straight ratios within each category. The precedent for modern SLI arbitrations seems to be pretty much set at this point.
I didn't say they didn't. The question was "Who won?" my answer was the top half of the Colgan list. I think you would be hard pressed to find a group that made out better on the SLI (thats not even taking the new contract into consideration). Who do you think "won"?
PS I totally get that life is not fair and this industry is especially not fair. I am not really in a group that did well or got hosed, I think I ended up about in the place I feel I should be. I am just stating my opinion of who hit the lottery in the SLI.
Just out of pure curiosity, what would you say the biggest gap in the DAL/NWA list was? Were there any people with the same hire date that were 1,000 spots apart?Yeah but I lost 1000 numbers....Kidding, KIDDING! Don't taze me bro.
Well, let me preface this by saying that I'm one of 12,000 and you will probably see 12,000 different opinions.
Probably the best example might be one of my colleagues. He is a Delta pilot and his identical twin brother is a (former) NWA pilot. Both were hired very roughly at the same time.
Seniority-wise, they're a few hundred numbers apart, maybe even up to 1,000, I'm not really sure.
Relatively speaking, they're within a few percent of where they were on their respective seniority lists, but they're many numbers apart. I really wouldn't get hung up over seniority numbers because what's really important is where your percentile falls.
Back during the darker days of the SLI, I was commuting to ATL for recurrent training. A guy walks up, doesn't introduce himself and asks "What's your new number?"
I really didn't know because I don't get too bent out of shape over crap I can't control and pointless stress over it will kill you deader than dating an ex-sports star's estranged wife in Brentwood.
So I look up my new number on my spreadsheet and say "Well, it looks like XXXX and I lost about 2% relative seniority. Still senior wide-body FO, junior narrow-body captain"
"I lost 3000 numbers!"
"What are you flying now?"
"Reserve 757 FO"
"Can you still hold it?"
"Yes, but..."
So instead of realizing that he actually gained a few percent of relative seniority and what he could do before the merger, is exactly what he could do after the merger, he was hung up over an arbitrary number.
I asked, very roughly paraphrased of course "If you were 4,700 out of 5,400 before the seniority list integration, did you expect to be 4,700 out of 12,000?"
"That's what my number was"
"So basically reserve 757 FO to line-holding 767 captain?"
There were some big gains some people made and there were some big losses as well, but in the macro sense, we are all kind of where we were before except for a few circumstances. I think Bloch, in our case, was fair. But you're always going to have the "I gots SKREEEEEEWED in the merger" types that can't see the forest for the trees.
And that's cool.
Plenty of space for us all, just don't piss me off about it when it's happy hour!
Calm down.
If you've got a question about moderation, the buck stops with me and my inbox is always open for questions and comments. If you think something is unjust, email me or send me a PM and I promise I will look into it.
Public trials with crossfire from the peanut gallery? Not so interested.
Let's not veer from an informational thread about an important occurrence in the aviation profession to whether or not a mod's being polite or not.
And it's not really even an infractable offense, that's the interesting part!
Bumblebee
Commodore
I think you are not getting the drift, let me give you an analogy:
If you were hanging in a bar, pushing and prodding people into finally smacking you, and then you run to the bouncer and scream in his face demanding that he do something about it, you might find yourself the one being bounced.
You should try it sometime....oh, you already are!
TUCKnTRUCK
That guy
Calm down.
If you've got a question about moderation, the buck stops with me and my inbox is always open for questions and comments. If you think something is unjust, email me or send me a PM and I promise I will look into it.
Public trials with crossfire from the peanut gallery? Not so interested.
Let's not veer from an informational thread about an important occurrence in the aviation profession to whether or not a mod's being polite or not.
And it's not really even an infractable offense, that's the interesting part!
I vote for a new policy then. CC required to sign up. Rather than infractions, call it a beer point. A beer point is worth 5 bucks. All beer points go into a pool, and then grab a tab at the next career fair/ forum wide meet/greet. That way, if you really overstep the bounds, at least you follow the man code and settle up with a drink.