Pinnacle CAE Bridge ??

[kellwolf]

It's straight from the light twin to the CRJ, ERJ or Dash 8.


That's todays reality.

Well, I went straight from a light twin to the CRJ.....without one of these overpriced bridge programs. Wouldn't trade my experience for anything, either. Oh, and I still have cash to spare, too. Wouldn't have had that either if I had done a bridge program.

What scares me is sometime next year I'm gonna be CA in the left seat with a guy out of one of these bridge programs with next to no real world experience....

 

[DE727UPS]

"What scares me is sometime next year I'm gonna be CA in the left seat with a guy out of one of these bridge programs with next to no real world experience...."

Be afraid....Be very afraid....

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Well, I went straight from a light twin to the CRJ.....without one of these overpriced bridge programs. Wouldn't trade my experience for anything, either. Oh, and I still have cash to spare, too. Wouldn't have had that either if I had done a bridge program.

What scares me is sometime next year I'm gonna be CA in the left seat with a guy out of one of these bridge programs with next to no real world experience....

You're missing my point. I'm saying that TODAY, you can be a 250 hour F/O with PSA (CRJ), TSA (ERJ), or Piedmont (Dh8) WITHOUT any bridge program CRJ course.

It's just a wet C/I/ME and 250 hours, and you're qualified. I know one guy who just got a call from PSA with only 243 hours, Comm/Inst/ME. He has no prior bridge or CRJ course taken.

Who knows, this kinda thing keeps up, they'll end up doing away with bridge programs.

The whole point of a bridge program was to get interviews (and hired) as a relatively low timer.

But today, low timer C/I/ME is all it takes for PSA, TSA, Piedmont, etc.


Now that's scary.

 

[Soul Brotha']

Well, I went straight from a light twin to the CRJ.....without one of these overpriced bridge programs. Wouldn't trade my experience for anything, either. Oh, and I still have cash to spare, too. Wouldn't have had that either if I had done a bridge program.

What scares me is sometime next year I'm gonna be CA in the left seat with a guy out of one of these bridge programs with next to no real world experience....

If I knew what I know now. Why the hell did I go to that flight school in Sanford, FL? I blame Doug for not getting his website into my life earlier. I thought I was low time when I got hired at 1100/100 with about 800 instructing.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Mmm... Did you read the website? Unless they're blatantly lying, it sounds like Pinnacle staff does the interview BEFORE you pay the 10k... they are probably doing the "let's make sure this guess isn't a douchbag" questions as well as oral knowledge... They don't really care about your flying skills because you'll pick them up at CAE (hypothetically).

From their website:

The selection procedure will consist of two days at CAE's Denver training facility. The above tests will be conducted on the first day. Pinnacle Airlines will conduct a human resources interview on the second day for those candidates who successfully pass the selection process.

The cost of the selection process is $200 (excluding taxes). This fee is non-refundable.

Successful candidates of the selection process and the HR interview will be invited to participate in the Jump Start course and have the amount of the selection process applied toward the cost of the course.


The Course
After a successful selection process, you will be invited for a Jump Start course at the CAE Training Center Denver.

After the Jump Start Course

Upon successful completion of the Jump Start course, candidates will be scheduled by Pinnacle Airlines for their first officer candidate class.

Well, yes, I did read. See this portion:

Opportunities and Benefits

After successful completion of the Jump Start course at CAE, you will be guaranteed an interview with Pinnacle Airlines.

Salary is market competitive - Today it is $20.73/hr with a 75-hour monthly Guarantee

Reserve schedules run 20 days/month while line holders average 16 days/month

Possible bases are: Minneapolis, Detroit, or Memphis

Captain upgrade is possible in 18 to 24 months

Other benefits: health, dental, vision, flex spending, company matching 401(k), discounted travel on NWA plus interline privileges.



So who knows what's the case.

 

[kellwolf]

You're missing my point. I'm saying that TODAY, you can be a 250 hour F/O with PSA (CRJ), TSA (ERJ), or Piedmont (Dh8) WITHOUT any bridge program CRJ course.

It's just a wet C/I/ME and 250 hours, and you're qualified. I know one guy who just got a call from PSA with only 243 hours, Comm/Inst/ME. He has no prior bridge or CRJ course taken.

Who knows, this kinda thing keeps up, they'll end up doing away with bridge programs.

The whole point of a bridge program was to get interviews (and hired) as a relatively low timer.

But today, low timer C/I/ME is all it takes for PSA, TSA, Piedmont, etc.


Now that's scary.

How many actual low timers are hired there? Seriously. You've said it before (in this thread). An interview is not the same thing as getting hired.

Missing the point or not, 250 hour FOs still scare me. I didn't know crap when I was at 250 hours, but I THOUGHT I did. And a bridge program wouldn't have magically made me that much better at those hours, either.

Wanna know what a bridge program does? It transfers the responsibility from the airline training dept to the line captains that didn't ask for the responsibility. All they do is give you just enough knowledge to get through training successfully. Airline bean counters love it since fewer people flunk out, thus reducing the training costs to the airline. Line CAs hate it since they essentially become single pilot in a lot of cases.

 

[av8sean]

Not only that, but the word on the street is the fresh 250-350TT pilots getting into PSA and TSA are flunking out at a very high rate. Pinnacle doesn't have this problem with the JetU or GIA people, and I know several people who did similar programs (except the training was in a DC9 sim) went to ASA and all passed training as well.

 

[ComplexHiAv8r]

Not only that, but the word on the street is the fresh 250-350TT pilots getting into PSA and TSA are flunking out at a very high rate. Pinnacle doesn't have this problem with the JetU or GIA people, and I know several people who did similar programs (except the training was in a DC9 sim) went to ASA and all passed training as well.

Interesting, I am hearing of JetU people flunking out at PCL. I just wonder where they are going to get the 250 hours guaranteed?

Cherokee_C do you know what the policy is for the JetU guys to get their hours if they don't make it?

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

kellwolf,

Wanna know what a bridge program does? It transfers the responsibility from the airline training dept to the line captains that didn't ask for the responsibility. All they do is give you just enough knowledge to get through training successfully. Airline bean counters love it since fewer people flunk out, thus reducing the training costs to the airline. Line CAs hate it since they essentially become single pilot in a lot of cases.

Pilots don't even need a bridge program anymore. PSA, TSA, and Piedmont all require just C/I/ME and they are taking 250 hr F/Os. I posted yesterday I knew a guy at PSA with about 243 hrs.

So when you say "this is what a bridge program does..."

That's not the case for PSA, TSA, and Piedmont. Minimums are so low, that now you can't blame the RJ courses. The airline itself is to be blamed for being so short of pilots and their inability to attract/retain pilots. Reality is setting in that pilots make 20k their first year, so the regionals are scrambling to fill their seats.

My prediction?

Expect more and more regionals to drop to C/I/ME (PSA, TSA, Piedmont are already there).

Then, pilots won't be taking CRJ courses... they'll be going straight from the twin at 250 hours, into an ailrine interview with no prior RJ sim time or speciliazed training.

Interesting, I am hearing of JetU people flunking out at PCL. I just wonder where they are going to get the 250 hours guaranteed?

Cherokee_C do you know what the policy is for the JetU guys to get their hours if they don't make it?

And who is this that you're "hearing" from? I am truly curious.


Anyway, two pilots flunked out. Apparently, one had a serious family life issue come up literally on his checkride day, and he fell apart. The second guy (I think) was more of an attitude problem.

Anyway, Jet U got them jobs at PSA (in training with PSA now).

Yes, Jet U guarantees a job.

I am honestly surprised that Jet U would even bother to help these two pilots out.

After all, Jet U got them jobs at Pinnacle, so Jet U's objective/goal (and guarantee) was complete.

Any other flight school would have just said, "too bad!"

But Jet U still brought these two guys back, offered some prep, and interviews with PSA. Both got hired.

To this day, no one has had to go to Gulfstream for the 'free' 250 hrs.

Pinnacle hires everyone. There were two that went to PSA. Rumor is PSA wants more and more from Jet U.

Also, rumors that other regionals are poking their heads in to see if they can get Jet U pilots.

 

[BobDDuck]

Couple of things...

PSA does NOT want more of the JetU guys. One of them has a really crappy attitude and is driving several people in the training department crazy. What PSA wants is more pilots and unfortunately, they are having some issues getting pilots and hence are looking for other avenues. One of these is the JetU program. The training department doesn't want it and the line captains sure as hell don't want it, but it may end up happening.

The mins here may be a wet ink commercial multi, but there aren't that many guys getting hired with just that. The ones that are are getting by, but the training department is having to adjust the training program (more IPT and sim) to get them through. Even then, the washout rate is higher.

And finally, sure, maybe the new future is not having to instruct and buying your way into a job (even if it's not PFJ in the traditional sense) but if you think you are going to get by in this field with everything being spoon fed to you like it is in these jet transition programs, you are going to have a hell of time surviving. What I am saying is that if you don't feel comfortable going full bore into ground school with out some sort of extra prep, you really should be considering a different career. It's not fair for the people you will fly with, it's not fair for the company you fly with and it's sure as hell not fair for the passengers you are flying around.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Couple of things...

PSA does NOT want more of the JetU guys. One of them has a really crappy attitude and is driving several people in the training department crazy. What PSA wants is more pilots and unfortunately, they are having some issues getting pilots and hence are looking for other avenues. One of these is the JetU program. The training department doesn't want it and the line captains sure as hell don't want it, but it may end up happening.

The mins here may be a wet ink commercial multi, but there aren't that many guys getting hired with just that. The ones that are are getting by, but the training department is having to adjust the training program (more IPT and sim) to get them through. Even then, the washout rate is higher.

Crappy attitudes are not isolated to Jet U. There's bad apples in every batch.

And finally, sure, maybe the new future is not having to instruct and buying your way into a job (even if it's not PFJ in the traditional sense) but if you think you are going to get by in this field with everything being spoon fed to you like it is in these jet transition programs, you are going to have a hell of time surviving.

You missed my point.

You don't even need a PFT course anymore as a low timer. Send your resume to PSA, TSA, and Piedmont, and you'll probably get a call. Their mins are that low, and I know one person hired at PSA with roughly 243 hrs.

What I am saying is that if you don't feel comfortable going full bore into ground school with out some sort of extra prep, you really should be considering a different career. It's not fair for the people you will fly with, it's not fair for the company you fly with and it's sure as hell not fair for the passengers you are flying around.

It's the end goal of the CRJ course: the interview. As a low timer, Pinnacle wouldn't hire me unless I had a bridge program. Jet U was one of their listed options. After this CRJ course, and if I successfully pass Pinnacle's MEM training, you can bet I won't be doing any 'transition courses' after that.

 

[zmiller4]

Crappy attitudes are not isolated to Jet U. There's bad apples in every batch.

Yeah, but when you get a group that's largely composed of people who want to bypass the process of gaining experience, the percentage of those with crappy attitudes goes up dramatically.

You don't even need a PFT course anymore as a low timer....

...As a low timer, Pinnacle wouldn't hire me unless I had a bridge program.

So you're that married to going to Pinnacle? You're paying an extra couple grand to get to Pinnacle rather than another regional? I don't think it's a bad place, but is it worth that?

After this CRJ course, and if I successfully pass Pinnacle's MEM training, you can bet I won't be doing any 'transition courses' after that.

Good God, I hope not.

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

After this CRJ course, and if I successfully pass Pinnacle's MEM training, you can bet I won't be doing any 'transition courses' after that.

Why start?

 

[ComplexHiAv8r]

And who is this that you're "hearing" from? I am truly curious.

From PCL personnel, employees and pilots in the classes. Why are you so curious????

Anyway, two pilots flunked out. Apparently, one had a serious family life issue come up literally on his checkride day, and he fell apart. The second guy (I think) was more of an attitude problem.

Anyway, Jet U got them jobs at PSA (in training with PSA now).

I have also heard that one in the current class is having issue, have you?

Yes, Jet U guarantees a job.

I am honestly surprised that Jet U would even bother to help these two pilots out.

Why, that is their guarantee...

After all, Jet U got them jobs at Pinnacle, so Jet U's objective/goal (and guarantee) was complete.

Any other flight school would have just said, "too bad!"

But Jet U still brought these two guys back, offered some prep, and interviews with PSA. Both got hired.

To this day, no one has had to go to Gulfstream for the 'free' 250 hrs.

No, their agreement is to get the job, or give the 250hours. So you think it would be ok to go back on their agreement? Sounds like it would be a breech of contract...... Did you read your contract, and would they let them breech it on you?

Pinnacle hires everyone. There were two that went to PSA. Rumor is PSA wants more and more from Jet U.

And who is this that you're "hearing" from? I am truly curious.

Also, rumors that other regionals are poking their heads in to see if they can get Jet U pilots.

And who is this that you're "hearing" from? I am truly curious.

 

[higney85]

Kell- if it gets too bad just pref bid my number and i will be your FO... I will be sitting around waiting to turn 23:banghead:....

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

From PCL personnel, employees and pilots in the classes. Why are you so curious????

Are you a current Pinnacle employee? Anything else is probably borderline hearsay.
"He said, she said"

I have also heard that one in the current class is having issue, have
you?

Maybe. But so are current off street CFIs. Face it, a Jet U guy has a better chance of passing training than a off the street CFI. Only two Jet U students didn't make it. Compare that to the MANY more CFIs that haven't made it through. Pinnacle has had a spike in their washout rate. Hint, it isn't the Jet U guys causing it...

Why , that is their guarantee.. No, their agreement is to get the job, or give the 250hours. So you think it would be ok to go back on their agreement? Sounds like it would be a breech of contract...... Did you read your contract, and would they let them breech it on you?

Yes I read my contract. You get the job the second you pass the interview with Pinnacle... it's a conditional letter of employment, contingent on background checks.

If YOU wash out at the Pinnacle checkride at MEM, technically, you just lost your job.

Jet U's goal and guarantee was to just get you a job, and they did. You washed out. The second you're off to Memphis to start at Pinnacle, Jet U has done it's job (and fulfilled their guarantee).

After washing out, you are out of a job. Jet U is nice enough to take you back and set you up with someone else (like PSA).

And who is this that you're "hearing" from? I am truly curious.


And who is this that you're "hearing" from? I am truly curious.

The director of training here, who is in charge of setting up the interviews.

The director of training here, who is in charge of setting up the interviews.

 

[ComplexHiAv8r]

Are you a current Pinnacle employee? Anything else is probably borderline hearsay.
"He said, she said"

No I am not a PCL employee but have friends that are, and have gone through the training lately.

Maybe. But so are current off street CFIs. Face it, a Jet U guy has a better chance of passing training than a off the street CFI. Only two Jet U students didn't make it. Compare that to the MANY more CFIs that haven't made it through. Pinnacle has had a spike in their washout rate. Hint, it isn't the Jet U guys causing it...

True, it is not only the JetU having problems. Not sure I will give JetU a better chance in passing. If a pilot puts forth the effort and has the ability, I believe they will pass.

I will agree I have heard the horror stories of outsources Sim training, with the first ride with a PCL instructor is the checkride.

Yes I read my contract. You get the job the second you pass the interview with Pinnacle... it's a conditional letter of employment, contingent on background checks.

If YOU wash out at the Pinnacle checkride at MEM, technically, you just lost your job.

I will disagree on this for multiple reasons.
1. You are NOT an employee until you pass the checkride, just ask someone!
2. The contract I have (as well as the website still indicates the same, and in discussions with JetU personnel) if you are not placed with PCL they will work with you for other employement followed by the guarantee of 250hours FO.

Jet U's goal and guarantee was to just get you a job, and they did. You washed out. The second you're off to Memphis to start at Pinnacle, Jet U has done it's job (and fulfilled their guarantee).

See above. Until you get a seniority number you are NOT employeed, hense they did NOT get you a job!

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

No I am not a PCL employee but have friends that are, and have gone through the training lately.

Exactly. The he said, she said...

True, it is not only the JetU having problems. Not sure I will give JetU a better chance in passing. If a pilot puts forth the effort and has the ability, I believe they will pass.

Jet U students have all passed. There were only two (a third resigned on his own recognisance). That's only two pilots. EVERY other Jet U guy has passed.

Of course a Jet U pilot has a better chance of passing.

Jet U follows the *entire* Pinnacle syllabus once. You literally do everything that they do at MEM. SO when you get to 9E, you have already done everything.

As opposed to the external applicants, who have never seen any systems, memory items, CRJ sim time, nothing. The highest washout rate is with external applicants with off the street with no prior RJ course-work.

I know you would like to think otherwise, but that is the case.

I will disagree on this for multiple reasons.
1. You are NOT an employee until you pass the checkride, just ask someone!
2. The contract I have (as well as the website still indicates the same, and in discussions with JetU personnel) if you are not placed with PCL they will work with you for other employement followed by the guarantee of 250hours FO.


See above. Until you get a seniority number you are NOT employeed, hense they did NOT get you a job!

Contract you have? Do you go to Jet U?

You haven't been here long enough. Clearly, I can tell.

The website is glossy crap. You need to come here, and go through the program before commenting on job placement.

They will get you hired at Pinnacle. If for some reason that doesn't work out, they'll get you with PSA. True, they have a 'guarantee of 250 hr F/O" but I can tell you they have not done that for anyone. Everyone got on with Pinnacle and PSA.


As far as the checkride, yes you have to pass it to be an employee. But in the mean time, you're cashing checks of $400 per week, and will bank about $3000 bucks while training for your checkride at the airline.

 

[ComplexHiAv8r]

Exactly. The he said, she said...

And the same can be said what you are told, you are a student and they are making it look GOOD to you. Your not an employee either!

Contract you have? Do you go to Jet U?

You haven't been here long enough. Clearly, I can tell.

The contract provided to me by JetU (actually I have 2 different copies due to the age and agreement the first contract was under....remember CAT?)

The website is glossy crap. You need to come here, and go through the program before commenting on job placement.

I'm just repeating what JetU personnel have told me, directly. Not second hand or anything, just FYI.

They will get you hired at Pinnacle. If for some reason that doesn't work out, they'll get you with PSA. True, they have a 'guarantee of 250 hr F/O" but I can tell you they have not done that for anyone. Everyone got on with Pinnacle and PSA.

I actually had a JetU person tell me they had sent someone, but I will admit I think it was people involved with the CAT program, not PCL.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

The contract provided to me by JetU (actually I have 2 different copies due to the age and agreement the first contract was under....remember CAT?)

CAT has been done for a while, that's the old contract. There's been a new contract this year, and is probably not the same as you have.