Pilots to strike if NWA imposes cuts

I am not saying the NWA pilots should take a beating with a smile. I think they definately need to be paid their worth. I just think that they are somewhere between a rock and a hard place right now. Most of those guys have families and need their jobs. Its not like majors are having open casting calls for pilots right now.

Low wages.. is it better than no wages?

Like I said before - risks v. rewards. A tough call for many not posting on this board.
 
n57flyguy said:
Thats why I love these forums, but ive been so immature on some topics, people dont even want to talk to me. But he only way is to ask and not be dumb about it.

from the news desk.....http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060301/ap_on_bi_ge/airlines_labor
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Yea...you were pretty damn immature from jumpstreet but so were(BCTav8r) Brian and others your age when they first joined and they managed to turn it around. I have really,really been impressed by Brian's growth as have others. You will get there as well just keep your ears to the ground and don't be afraid to ask the hard questions.

As for you and me your not on my ignore list and were cool. Just remember to have fun when you come here and enjoy learning about aviation.

:)
 
BCTAv8r said:
Lol. Search my posts from 1-2 years ago. It's completely normal. I had enough flaming to cause me to quit, but did I? Heck no.

We're glad to have you here.:)
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Which is why Kristie and I are card-carrying members of the "Brian DeJesus Club". He's a tough kid, came to learn, took a bunch of heat at times without taking it personal, learned from it and is 'The Man' in our book.
 
meritflyer said:
I am not saying the NWA pilots should take a beating with a smile. I think they definately need to be paid their worth. I just think that they are somewhere between a rock and a hard place right now. Most of those guys have families and need their jobs. Its not like majors are having open casting calls for pilots right now.

Low wages.. is it better than no wages?

Like I said before - risks v. rewards. A tough call for many not posting on this board.
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You have to keep in mind that the NWA pilots have given concessions more than once already. Normally, I would agree with you about this. However, what gets my blood boiling is when upper management demands that employees take pay and benefit cuts; then give themselves huge bonuses for slashing costs. Then, when it appears they (management) are on a crippled craft, they grab their "golden parachute" and bail out. It is not unique to airlines or aviation.

I blame the corporate culture. Hire an "experienced" CEO, CFO, etc. for a premium price. When they don't do their job and start feeling pressure to leave, the company has to buy them out of their contracts for up to millions of dollars. The companies should do away with these long contracts for executive officers.

Most, if not all employees of the struggling carriers have pitched in and sacrificed for their companies' survival. What would be nice is if the upper management would show that same dedication. I'm not writing this as an anti-management post. I have great respect for those who give at least what their employees give. I'm working on my economics degree so that I will have a good backup if the aviation thing does not work. I would not mind starting my own business someday, or managing a large company. I hope that I would treat employees better than the executives at the airlines.

end of rant
 
BCTAv8r said:
Lol. Search my posts from 1-2 years ago. It's completely normal. I had enough flaming to cause me to quit, but did I? Heck no.

We're glad to have you here.:)
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Yeah, the A380 disscusion, man I was stupid. Max told me not to screw these forums, and I wont. But thanks guys.

Kristie- You're right I really do learn something new everyday weather it be in the Lav or tech talk. I do agree with your point of the pilots also, you really don t think about it that way till your down that road. Thanks again guys.
 
tonyw said:
Let's say they said, we're cutting your pay by 50 percent and taking away your pension. Oh, yeah, and we're going to raise your copays and your insurance premiums, too. By the way, when we're done, you'll make more working at Home Depot.

What would you do? Just smile, bend over and lube up?
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No, I'll tell you what you do. You sell the house your husband grew up in because you can't afford it with the new payscale. You lose your house, you move to another state to be closer to base so you don't have to buy commuter hotel rooms anymore. You shop eBay and the clearance racks, coupons and Aldi's become a way of life. Your wife tries to find a job she's qualified for, despite being out of the workforce for 3 years and basically having no marketable skills what-so-ever that will cover the cost of daycare for two kids and bring enough money home to be worth the effort.

You make the best of it, because you'll go insane if you don't, but there has to come a time when enough is enough. When a company wants to pay someone with 15 years of airline flying experience $45k a year, that's just too low.

I wish the elitist management corps could really know what it's like to be a rank and file employee for once. I used to say I wouldn't wish being furloughed on anyone. Now, there's actually some people I would.
 
Nwa....

if anyone can find me the information - this could be a really good "problem solver" challenge
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Kristie, I can ask my resource about NWA. According to this person, NWA has back down on "New Co." thing. According to our conversation, pilots would not back down from their current position.

adreamer
 
meritflyer said:
Low wages.. is it better than no wages?
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They can go down to the Home Depot and get more money.

Next question?

MQAAord said:
No, I'll tell you what you do. You sell the house your husband grew up in because you can't afford it with the new payscale. You lose your house, you move to another state to be closer to base so you don't have to buy commuter hotel rooms anymore. You shop eBay and the clearance racks, coupons and Aldi's become a way of life. Your wife tries to find a job she's qualified for, despite being out of the workforce for 3 years and basically having no marketable skills what-so-ever that will cover the cost of daycare for two kids and bring enough money home to be worth the effort.
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This is a pefect illustration of just what these paycuts mean. Meritflyer, go on. I challenge you to say, ah, hell, low wages are better than no wages when it means you give all this up.

Especially when said low wages are beatable at your local Home Depot.
 
Timbuff10 said:
I didn't follow the situation with the mechanics too well but when they went on strike why didn't the pilots strike too?
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The flight attendants, ground workers, etc. didn't strike either. Primarily because the other unions at NWA no likey AMFA. There are dozens of reasons, but the biggest are: (1) AMFA is an "insurgent," "independent" union, which poached NWA's mechanics from an existing union (the entrenched unions no like any threat to their dues-stream); (2) AMFA historically has refused to have anything to do with the other unions; and (3) AMFA has made no secret of the fact that they wanted mechanics to be among the highest paid airline employees, on par with pilots, and also have been very clear that they don't care if other airline employees have to take a pay cut in order for that to happen. In general, AMFA rather deliberately has set themselves up as apart from, and antagonistic to, the other NWA unions. So it was really no shock to me when the other unions decided not to put themselves on the line to help AMFA.

Add to that, the fact that the pilots have by far the most to lose if the company goes under -- at the time of the AMFA strike, the pilots were busy trying to ensure that their pensions didn't go buh-bye. (I also think that the pilot's union thought that AMFA's position was unreasonable and unrealistic -- but that's kinda speculative on my part)

MF
 
n57flyguy said:
isnt that muder/sucicide? If they striked they would lose their jobs and would put the company in more than it is in now. Just wondering, but its a shame to see that happen to an airline.
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What do they have to lose?
 
meritflyer said:
A job worth having? WTF? I understand that the job conditions have to be workable but what do you say to your wife and kids..

'Hey there honey, lost my job today'

You have to analyze the risks v. rewards very carefully!
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If your wife and kids truly love you they'll support you. And yes it MUST be a job worth having there are far too many sacrifices to then turn around and be paid at the level of a new college graduate - if you're that lucky.
 
"Woo, lookit me! I get to fly a shiney jet in between days of working at subway!"
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
There is probably a PFT/PFJ program at Doctor & Associates Inc. (owners of Subway for those not in the know.)
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Wouldn't you know it. Doug's going to bring down the standards for the rest of the sandwich artists.
 
The pilots should strike, trust the airlinr won't be able to fire the pilots and hire other ones. it is impossible. The airline won't operate for a long time and they will eventually cease operations, it is not that easy as it looks.
And on the side, why should a pilot get his/her pay cut so the fat ass manager can get himself more money for saving the company (At least that is what they think!).
 
This situation sucks for all the men and women sitting in the pilots seats at NWA. Unfortunately, this happens all the time to highly trained professionals. My father is an OB/GYN who after paying $100K a year in malpractice brings home $70K.

Hopefully there is quick resolve to this situation that will allow the pilots to keep their jobs with a decent salary and NWA to keep operating.
 
You really have to "follow the money".

Northwest's labor costs aren't the problem, it's a mere distraction. If someone thinks, for a moment, that NWA with billions in cash flow is going to shut down over a single employee group and a disagreement over a couple hundred million in concessions, I have some oceanfront property in Agua Prieta, MX I'd like to sell you.

It's a big chess game.

As labor, the only tool you have is 'withdrawl of service' and the company knows that with the history of labor at NWA, the pilots WILL strike.

The company counters with media-friendly phrases like "mutually assured destruction", "murder-suicide", and "we'll shut down!"

Over a few hundred million? Puleeze. In the eyes of the corporation, it's a drop in the bucket.

Don't believe the hype.
 
Doug Taylor said:
You really have to "follow the money".

Northwest's labor costs aren't the problem, it's a mere distraction. If someone thinks, for a moment, that NWA with billions in cash flow is going to shut down over a single employee group and a disagreement over a couple hundred million in concessions, I have some oceanfront property in Agua Prieta, MX I'd like to sell you.

It's a big chess game.

As labor, the only tool you have is 'withdrawl of service' and the company knows that with the history of labor at NWA, the pilots WILL strike.

The company counters with media-friendly phrases like "mutually assured destruction", "murder-suicide", and "we'll shut down!"

Over a few hundred million? Puleeze. In the eyes of the corporation, it's a drop in the bucket.

Don't believe the hype.
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So does the same hold true for DL (if you can comment...if not don't) does DL mgnmt know that the pilot group is serious and ain't playing and will strike?
 
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