Pilots have hurt themselves..
- Thread starter meritflyer
- Start date
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
This topic must be the new PFT on the site!
-Matthew
-Matthew
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
PhotoPilot,
Good post. I think you hit the nail on the head. If the job doesn't offer what you think you deserve, DON'T DO IT.
In the same thinking, I turned down interviews at Colgan, Commutair, and Mesa. Other people, with lesser qualifications, will eagerly snap up my spot - but who am I to judge them? They have to live with their choices, I'm not going to rub my foot in their face because I think I'm "better".
meritflyer, exactly what are you upset with? If it's low wages, go do something else that pays more. It almost seems you want to do a job you like and get paid well for it...it doesn't always work like that, bud.
A newhire F/O here makes $22.99/hr. Second year, it's something like $33.55/hr. Third year it's around $34.50/hr. Currently upgrade is 2.5 years, so we have 3 year captains making $58/hr. This is on a 50 seater. Multiply those hourly rates by 1000 to get an approximate yearly rate, minus per diem, which could end up being significant (over $5000/yr for most of the regional folks). Personally, I will surpass what I made as an instructor after my first year, and I work WAY less. It's a win-win for me.
And comparing pilots to doctors is way out of line (especially regional pilots). I had a student that went from 0 time to regional job in 13 months, even after taking 2 months off. He did ATP's program and got hired at ExpressJet with 500 hours. As far as I know, it takes doctors 8 years of schooling, and then several years of residency to start rolling in the big bucks...
~wheelsup
Good post. I think you hit the nail on the head. If the job doesn't offer what you think you deserve, DON'T DO IT.
In the same thinking, I turned down interviews at Colgan, Commutair, and Mesa. Other people, with lesser qualifications, will eagerly snap up my spot - but who am I to judge them? They have to live with their choices, I'm not going to rub my foot in their face because I think I'm "better".
meritflyer, exactly what are you upset with? If it's low wages, go do something else that pays more. It almost seems you want to do a job you like and get paid well for it...it doesn't always work like that, bud.
A newhire F/O here makes $22.99/hr. Second year, it's something like $33.55/hr. Third year it's around $34.50/hr. Currently upgrade is 2.5 years, so we have 3 year captains making $58/hr. This is on a 50 seater. Multiply those hourly rates by 1000 to get an approximate yearly rate, minus per diem, which could end up being significant (over $5000/yr for most of the regional folks). Personally, I will surpass what I made as an instructor after my first year, and I work WAY less. It's a win-win for me.
And comparing pilots to doctors is way out of line (especially regional pilots). I had a student that went from 0 time to regional job in 13 months, even after taking 2 months off. He did ATP's program and got hired at ExpressJet with 500 hours. As far as I know, it takes doctors 8 years of schooling, and then several years of residency to start rolling in the big bucks...
~wheelsup
B767Driver
New Member
As numerous majors are restructuring in bankruptcy...hopefully the pilots at these carriers can begin to solve some of the problem. All 70 seat flying and above needs to be done at the major airlines. This industry must get rid of all these commuters out there....heck some brands have 3,4, 5 different airlines flying under their brand banner. This is crazy.
Heck, even staple seniority lists to the bottom of the major's list. That's fine with me. Just get the flying at the mainline and get rid of all 70,000 commuters flying out there in this country. Then we should be able to piece together some sense of rationalness to this profession. UAL, DAL, NWA, USA, and CTL mainline pilots need to make this happen in their contracts. Otherwise $10K per year pilots are right around the corner.
Heck, even staple seniority lists to the bottom of the major's list. That's fine with me. Just get the flying at the mainline and get rid of all 70,000 commuters flying out there in this country. Then we should be able to piece together some sense of rationalness to this profession. UAL, DAL, NWA, USA, and CTL mainline pilots need to make this happen in their contracts. Otherwise $10K per year pilots are right around the corner.
Realms09
Well-Known Member
wheelsup said:
This is just to get the doctor info out there. According to my roommate who will be going to medical school next year, to reach his goal of becoming a cardiovascular surgeon he needs to do the following:
1) Medical school: 4 years (to become a doctor)
2) Residency: 6 years (to become a surgeon)
3) Fellowship: 3 years (to become a cardiovascular surgeon)
Total: 13 years
I do not know how pay varies in the residency-fellowship regime. I hear surgeon pay is nice (200-300k) but like with pilots, it was significantly higher 30 years ago.
Mountain Flying
New Member
Ya I believe im gambling with my loans for flgith training but I have faith! It will all turn around a bit I hope. I myself wouldnt fly regional for 18$/hr hell I can make 25 instructing and getta go home at 5pm everyday...
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
Mountain Flying said:
I love how people keep saying "i can make $XX more per hour instructing". Well, yeah you will make crap your first year (and second and third) at some/most airlines. However, if the airplane craps out or wx goes down I get paid for the ENTIRE DAY even if I never stepped onto an aircraft, and by the time upgrade comes the jet regionals pay double what a decent instructing gig will bring in. Even at the best instructing gigs you don't have that kind of pay/work rules.
Think long term...
~wheelsup
tonyw
Well-Known Member
Realms09 said:
Here, let me give you another one. This is what my sister did.
1. Undergrad ($25K a year, $100K)
2. Med school ($30K a year, $90K)
3. Residency (three years at about $30K a year, but you'd make more money at Wal-Mart if you were paid on an hourly basis)
So, for her, she spent ten years in school, and net costs were $100K.
And she did it fast. A lot of folks take longer for their residency.
shinysideup
New Member
skywestseth said:
That comment from someone starting at $18 an hour.... There are many pilots out there, and I would say that 99% of them love to fly, so thats really a bad cop out. Of those 99% I am seeing more and more people that have very small backbones, and for some reason like the taste of hot dogs and ramen noodle. Here is a good rule of thumb. If the company you work for has an unwritten rule that you find out about in ground school that says something to the effect of, "A pilot may not wear his/her company uniform when they apply for their food stamps." THERE IS A PROBLEM>>>HUGE PROBLEM.
And for those who say the regionals is a residency such as a doctor... WAY OFF BASE. The regionals require two pilots for most of the aircraft in operation right now. Not one experienced pilot baby siting a pilot who has limited experience. If anything the learning experience should be through progression. Learn to fly, instruct or fly jumpers or pipeline, go to a 135, then turbo-props wouldn't hurt, and then once you have a couple of thousand hours... YES a couple of thousand (2000 would be a good number) go fly a jet. Not only will you be qualified to do so at that point and have a good base of experience, but you will be in a position industry wide to demand a higher salary. But if you have 500 hours and done everything you can to get into a jet as fast as possible, DONT COMPLAIN ABOUT BEING PAID NOTHING.
MY .02
The FAA needs to make the requirements for a FO in a 121 operation equal to or more restrictive then 135 Captain requirements. At that point the airlines will have more qualified pilots, and those pilots will have a little more at stake then a 500 hr SJS pilot, and therefore more backbone about being paid.
Almost all pilots love to fly... some pilots have the integrity to pass on a job where you need food stamps to survive.
By the way, there are jobs out there where you fly and you dont live on food stamps. It may not be a Jet right off the back, but you will be able to eat Campbell's instead of Ramen.
shinysideup
New Member
And now I am mad and raving.