"Pilotless Jumbo almost crashes"

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\"Pilotless Jumbo almost crashes\"

The crew thought the autopilot was on when it wasn't, almost leading to a disaster.

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Re: \"Pilotless Jumbo almost crashes\"

What the heck was the flight crew doing? Kinda hard not to notice that you veer 180 degrees off course , just my 2 sense though.
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Re: \"Pilotless Jumbo almost crashes\"

Korean 747 pilots have been known for.... well...


And now Cathay's near accident.


HEY!!! Anyone else still excited to destroy cabbotage laws, and induct cheap paid foriegn crews over American ones ????
 
Re: \"Pilotless Jumbo almost crashes\"

Very ignorant post. I would put Cathay's safety record and crew expertise against ANY U.S. carrier. They are one of the best operations on this planet, and not just in the service area. Used to be better, but still right up there.
 
Re: \"Pilotless Jumbo almost crashes\"

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Very ignorant post. I would put Cathay's safety record and crew expertise against ANY U.S. carrier. They are one of the best operations on this planet, and not just in the service area. Used to be better, but still right up there.

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What the hell? I just posted an article, you don't have to say it is an ignorant post.
 
Re: \"Pilotless Jumbo almost crashes\"

No, I believe he's referring to my post.

Yes, I agree that Cathay has a safe record... according to Airdisaster.com they've had only two crashes, one inflight bomb, the other shot down; both out of the pilots control. Yes, they're a safe airline.

I DIDN'T imply the crew was unsafe to operate for the US... I was only referring to the looks-to-be trend that in the future, foreign pilots will be inducted who will work for cheaper wages than their American pilot counterparts.



And as far as their pilots go, Yes, they're extremely safe and competent. Cathay is one of the few airlines that will make their cadet pilots as second officers "relief" pilots for a few years before allowing them to become a first officer. That's very nice from a safety standpoint.

But I wouldn't say that Cathay's pilots or training is any better or worse than say, American Airlines... or Southwest airlines, etc.

Murphy's Law applies to ALL airlines, so every once in a while, no matter how good the pilot, crap happens.
 
Re: \"Pilotless Jumbo almost crashes\"

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I DIDN'T imply the crew was unsafe to operate for the US... I was only referring to the looks-to-be trend that in the future, foreign pilots will be inducted who will work for cheaper wages than their American pilot counterparts.


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So what does that have to do with this incident, assuming it is true?

Just curious.

Personally I think we'll be seeing more and more things like this. Highly automated cockpits, long haul flights, very little hand flying, increasing dependence on auto-pilot, deteriorating basic skills.
 
Re: \"Pilotless Jumbo almost crashes\"

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Quote:
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I DIDN'T imply the crew was unsafe to operate for the US... I was only referring to the looks-to-be trend that in the future, foreign pilots will be inducted who will work for cheaper wages than their American pilot counterparts.
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So what does that have to do with this incident, assuming it is true?

Just curious.


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That's not how I meant it. I'll state my position better. In this *particular* case, the crew was very unsafe. Otherwise, I'm sure the 4 pilots are very competent.

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Personally I think we'll be seeing more and more things like this. Highly automated cockpits, long haul flights, very little hand flying, increasing dependence on auto-pilot, deteriorating basic skills.

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I couldn't agree more. But this case was definetly a first in terms of how far the event went, the whole time under the assumption the plane was on autopilot. 180 off course and a 28 degree pitch up nose attitude travelling at 130 mph should 'wake up' even the most tired-after-11-hour-flight pilot.
 
Re: \"Pilotless Jumbo almost crashes\"

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Personally I think we'll be seeing more and more things like this. Highly automated cockpits, long haul flights, very little hand flying, increasing dependence on auto-pilot, deteriorating basic skills.

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Not from me! I'm going to cover every glass display with newspaper, smash all but one radio, pull the autopilot breaker, and navigate with NDBs and a sextant.

And no ELT. Just smoke signals.
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Re: \"Pilotless Jumbo almost crashes\"

my instrument instructor went to Mazzei.

He's teaching me NDBs thats for sure. Its not all that bad though. I dont know why everybody thinks they are the devil.
 
Re: \"Pilotless Jumbo almost crashes\"

Shooting an NDB approach in actual IMC is definately not my favorite thing to do. The level of NDB accuracy is unpredicatable in my opinion.

Fly Safe!
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Aaron~
 
Re: \"Pilotless Jumbo almost crashes\"

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Not from me! I'm going to cover every glass display with newspaper, smash all but one radio, pull the autopilot breaker, and navigate with NDBs and a sextant.

And no ELT. Just smoke signals.
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I read somewhere that some of Pan Am's planes had a window so they could look out and use a sextant.

Would it piss you off if I told you I have no clue how to use an E6B? Seriously. I've got one of the electronic computers and I've always used that.
 
Re: \"Pilotless Jumbo almost crashes\"

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A windshear is a sudden violent down-draught that can destabilise aircraft at low altitudes, so the crew chose to abandon the initial approach and go around in preparation for a second attempt.


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Where in the heck did that come from??
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Re: \"Pilotless Jumbo almost crashes\"

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Ahhhh yes.....a Mazzei trained pilot.....
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I'll sit next to you with my abacus

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I'm now worldly, Surf. I can navigate with the modern day basics, ala Mazzei, or push buttons on every gadget in the panel. In fact, when I left, Mazzei was putting a 430 in the Arrow. Wonder if JD has played with it yet . . .

Who's your instructor, Montana? When did he leave Mazzei? Probably before my time, but the other Mazzei folks might know him.
 
Re: \"Pilotless Jumbo almost crashes\"

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Would it piss you off if I told you I have no clue how to use an E6B? Seriously. I've got one of the electronic computers and I've always used that.

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I furious, Tony!
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I used a whiz-wheel for a while because I couldn't afford a computerized version. Finally shelled out for one of the PDA based programs and love it. The E6-B still sits in my knee board, but I much prefer the one on my Palm Tungsten.
 
Re: \"Pilotless Jumbo almost crashes\"

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I couldn't agree more. But this case was definetly a first in terms of how far the event went, the whole time under the assumption the plane was on autopilot. 180 off course and a 28 degree pitch up nose attitude travelling at 130 mph should 'wake up' even the most tired-after-11-hour-flight pilot.

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I'm not sure it is a first. There have been some other "automation" accidents and incidents. An old joke is that the Airbus cockpits require some new callouts: "Whoa" "Whaaa?" "what's it doing?" "huh?" "wait a minute" "you got it?" etc.

Obviously this crew was confused by the windshear in the mix. But I"ve never heard of letting the auto-pilot fly you out of windshear, especially if it is doing that bad a job of it.

It was hard enough to maintain basic skills on international operations before the cockpits got so automated. Now? I don't know. But one thing for sure, on a dark night over the Atlantic when you are down to standby instruments, the only thing between you and the sea is your basic instrument skills.
 
Re: \"Pilotless Jumbo almost crashes\"

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But one thing for sure, on a dark night over the Atlantic when you are down to standby instruments, the only thing between you and the sea is your basic instrument skills.

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I bet the crew of Air Transat 236 can attest to that........as they were gliding at night 85 nm from Lajes AB in 2001.......
 
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